Mystery location

[BristleGWR]

Looking at the shadows the sun was fairly high in the sky, so assuming it was taken at the height of the sun, mid day, the train is coming from the north east so heading south west. That is of course if that is the front of the train. Is there any chance that it may be a banking engine and the light is a red light. In which case the train is heading north east.
If the line is a north east/ south west line it rules out a lot of lines.

There is a slight hint in the photo that there is smoke trailing behind the engine, therefore it is heading towards us.

My first thoughts was that the sun was quite high, but I'm not so sure now. The hand rails on the steps angle down, so this would exaggerate the height of the sun.

[horace]

I agree about the handrails, but look at the shadow of the engine, the cab roof has a fairly wide shadow for a small overhang, whereas the shadow of the engine itself is quite tight to the engine, the handrail on the front of the smoke box throws a shadow that to me indicates that the sun is high over the right shoulder of the photographer.

[AndyK]

I just have learned through another channel (Gerry Nichols at the Bristol Railway Circle) that the location has now been identified as Portbury.

The Portishead branch seems sort of obvious now, but for some reason I don't think it occurred to any of us to suggest it.

[railwest]

AndyK -that would be because I had a long chat with Gerry about it a few weeks ago! I had an idea about Portbury some while ago, but not being familiar with the area I was waiting to see if any one else came up with the idea.

Although there are certainly strong similarities with the original SBs elsewhere on that line, I would still caution against saying that it "IS" Portbury, as there is no hard factual evidence. But it is very strong presumption.....

[jules]

I would caution against it too. Portbury Shipyard was a fairly substantial place back in the 1920s ...

[AndyK]

I would caution against it too. Portbury Shipyard was a fairly substantial place back in the 1920s ...

The suggestion is Portbury station itself rather than Portbury Shipyard, and I think the circumstantial evidence is pretty strong.

I have just been leafing through my copy of Reflections on the Portishead Branch and it shows a plan of Portbury station in 1885. At that time the station had a loop and there was a signal box on the south side of the line to the east of the station. A siding diverged from the main line immediately in front of the signal box, exactly as shown in the photo.

At some time Portbury signal box closed and the loop was removed. I could not find any reference to this event in the book, but I should think it a fair bet that it was about the same time that Portbury Shipyard opened in 1918, since there would have been no need for two loops half a mile apart. There cannot have been many stations that had been downgraded like this at such an early date.

The book has a photo of Pill station in 1910 showing a signal box having the same proportions, roof shape and window frames as the box in the photo (however it looks as if it might be brick-built up to window height rather than having wood at waist level).

The box in the photo is constructed of dark stone with light stone quoins, (Pennant Sandstone and Bath Stone?) which is very characteristic of Victorian buildings in the Bristol area.

The train is longer than might be expected on a purely rural line; trains on the Portishead branch in the late 20's and 30's had up to 7 coaches, and the class of loco is appropriate.

[railwest]

As AndyK has said, we are talking about the original Portbury (station) box, not the later Portbury Shipyard (at a different location). The former closed 1896, the latter opened 1918.

I agree that the circumstantial evidence is indeed very strong, I just would not like to say that it definitely WAS that location until some produced a photograph of the station with the old box in the background. But I'm happy to go with the current hypothesis in the meantime

[mjt]

Chris,
has Durston as the mystery location now been ruled out?

For those not on the GWR or WSR elists there was the following contribution from Peter Jordan towards the end of August:

'After fairly detailed research I am now convinced that what the picture shows is a Yeovil branch train arriving at Durston, and passing the old Durston Branch Signal Box. This box was only in use as a signal box from circa 1880 until 1895 when the connections at this end of the Durston layout became operated from a ground frame. It is possible that the box is fulfilling this role in the photograph, but it is assumed that it was later demolished and replaced by a conventional open lineside frame.'

I don't think there was any subsequent discussion!

[railwest]

I was running another discussion elsewhere at http://www.signalbox.org/forum/viewtopi ... nch#p51218 which took it a little further. In essence there were yes/no views on both locations.

I would not say that Durston Branch was definitely ruled out, any more that I would say that Portbury was definitely ruled in Both seem to be strong contenders, I think you just have to make your own decision.

[mjt]

Thanks Chris,
altogether a very interesting discussion with some forthright opinions expressed! As you say there are good reasons put forward for believing it could be either Durston or Portbury. I do wonder though what Morten would be doing at Portbury - a very minor station without even a passing loop? He was a visitor to Somerset & there are, apparently, no other Portishead-branch photos in the collection. Being at Durston, perhaps changing for the Yeovil branch, seems more likely.

[railwest]

I had wondered if perhaps Morten had taken a ride down the Clevedon branch, then up the WC&P and back via the Portishead branch (or the other way around). Buts, as you say, why then stop off at Portbury, whereas changing trains at Durston has some value as an argument. I think you will see why I am keeping an 'open mind' on this

[Bill]

If you have a look at the Old-Maps website

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html

you can see historic detailed OS maps, although the interface is rather tedious.

Durston does not really seem to fit at all. The train is curving slightly to the right, which could only be an up train on the Yeovil branch, and there is no map evidence of any pointwork or signalbox that fits. The sun would also have to be in the north to cast those signalbox handrail shadows.

For Portbury, however, there is on Old-Maps an OS 1:2,500 dated 1915 which seems to fit in all details. A down train approaching the station, running due west at this point, there is a signalbox and a single siding shown just as we see here alongside the slight curve. Furthermore the field hedges, in the middleground behind the signalbox and further away to our left of the train across a large field, also fit correctly.