Evening all,
I am still around and thought you might be interested on an update on plans of Mangotsfield station.
With thanks to the Mangotsfield Railway circle a disk of photos was aquired which was fascinating and helped with a few details. Also at the same time I was introduced to another modeller also wanting to build the station and between us we have been working up details.
More recently I was fortuntate enough to get permission to undertake some investigations on the site to confirm various details.
The result of this was to proove there was a doorway into the gents on the Gloucester platform. It also appears to confirm the wall lines standing which i thought were not in line with the original foundations are on the original footprint.
I was able to proove the dimensions of the gents and that there were no other doorways in or out. At the same time the drain covers visible in photos (on Flickr) were found - Or at least the remains of the drains. This helps to tie down locations of some windows.
It was not possible in the time to confirm the width of the arch over the walkway as the stone on the Bristol end had been robbed out.
Next time, later this year we are hoping to look at the ladies and entrance on the Bath side together with the former waiting room on the Bristol bound platform on the Bath side. The result of all this activity should be plans in the nearish future. For a change as well it was dry.
Mangotsfield station plans
Mangotsfield Station Plans
Anyone interested in Mangotsfield may be interested that the Railwayana
Auction at Filton on Oct 11th, has a LMS original coloured drawing on linen
showing the Proposed abolition of Mangotsfield South Jcn Signal Box & Stone Siding Signal Box dated 1934/36. Auction info can be found on WWW.BRISTOLRAILWANA.CO.UK (not using a search engine)
Auction at Filton on Oct 11th, has a LMS original coloured drawing on linen
showing the Proposed abolition of Mangotsfield South Jcn Signal Box & Stone Siding Signal Box dated 1934/36. Auction info can be found on WWW.BRISTOLRAILWANA.CO.UK (not using a search engine)
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Blandford1969
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Morning all,
Over the course of the last two years research into Mangotsfield has continued. At the same time I came into contact with someone also trying to model the station and between us we have made progress.
The progress though has raised questions on parts of the internal layout of the booking Hall.
From excavations we are sure of the rooms on both wings. What we are not sure of is the location of the booking Office. Originally we thought it was at the Bristol end in the Office reached off the platform (Now thought to be the SMO)
From a contributor on Flickr he remembered the booking office window being on the left hand wall as you walked through from the Gloucester side.
Now in the ground from foundations we had this http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N ... hotostream . In the ground no other wall lines have been found (yet) However from the memory of someone it would suggest it should look like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N ... hotostream.
It looks like it would be very dark in this room, do any of you remember any windows at the back. Our thoughts were maybe a pair of windows facing onto the passageway.
We are still trying to answer the question of whether there was a pillar in the middle of the Booking Office floor- while there are some brick remains we are not sure they are in situ, nor are they in really the right allignment for a girder.
For those of you who have not come across this there is also a Flickr group specifically about Mangotsfield Junction. http://www.flickr.com/groups/1493786@N23/
So do any of these bits bring any memories back or can you add anything please let us know on here. Robin has been talking with Dave who is building the model, but really any snipets of information would be really appreciated. As an adendum , the Mangotsfield Railway Circle can't remember what the area in the Booking Hall was like so all our evidcne is based on what has been found on the ground.
Kind regards
Duncan
Over the course of the last two years research into Mangotsfield has continued. At the same time I came into contact with someone also trying to model the station and between us we have made progress.
The progress though has raised questions on parts of the internal layout of the booking Hall.
From excavations we are sure of the rooms on both wings. What we are not sure of is the location of the booking Office. Originally we thought it was at the Bristol end in the Office reached off the platform (Now thought to be the SMO)
From a contributor on Flickr he remembered the booking office window being on the left hand wall as you walked through from the Gloucester side.
Now in the ground from foundations we had this http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N ... hotostream . In the ground no other wall lines have been found (yet) However from the memory of someone it would suggest it should look like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N ... hotostream.
It looks like it would be very dark in this room, do any of you remember any windows at the back. Our thoughts were maybe a pair of windows facing onto the passageway.
We are still trying to answer the question of whether there was a pillar in the middle of the Booking Office floor- while there are some brick remains we are not sure they are in situ, nor are they in really the right allignment for a girder.
For those of you who have not come across this there is also a Flickr group specifically about Mangotsfield Junction. http://www.flickr.com/groups/1493786@N23/
So do any of these bits bring any memories back or can you add anything please let us know on here. Robin has been talking with Dave who is building the model, but really any snipets of information would be really appreciated. As an adendum , the Mangotsfield Railway Circle can't remember what the area in the Booking Hall was like so all our evidcne is based on what has been found on the ground.
Kind regards
Duncan
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Robin Summerhill
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Dave spoke to me yesterday but I couldn't be of any more help than my input has been so far.Blandford1969 wrote:Morning all,
The progress though has raised questions on parts of the internal layout of the booking Hall.
From excavations we are sure of the rooms on both wings. What we are not sure of is the location of the booking Office. Originally we thought it was at the Bristol end in the Office reached off the platform (Now thought to be the SMO)
From a contributor on Flickr he remembered the booking office window being on the left hand wall as you walked through from the Gloucester side.
Now in the ground from foundations we had this http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N ... hotostream . In the ground no other wall lines have been found (yet) However from the memory of someone it would suggest it should look like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N ... hotostream.
It looks like it would be very dark in this room, do any of you remember any windows at the back. Our thoughts were maybe a pair of windows facing onto the passageway.
We are still trying to answer the question of whether there was a pillar in the middle of the Booking Office floor- while there are some brick remains we are not sure they are in situ, nor are they in really the right allignment for a girder.
For those of you who have not come across this there is also a Flickr group specifically about Mangotsfield Junction. http://www.flickr.com/groups/1493786@N23/
So do any of these bits bring any memories back or can you add anything please let us know on here. Robin has been talking with Dave who is building the model, but really any snipets of information would be really appreciated. As an adendum , the Mangotsfield Railway Circle can't remember what the area in the Booking Hall was like so all our evidence is based on what has been found on the ground.
Kind regards
Duncan
However, from my memory I would disagree with the memory of your other correspondent regarding the booking hall!
If (as I usually did) you came in from the Bath-bound platform, you first turned right into the covered way and then left into the booking hall. The booking office window was at the far end of the room and the layout was more or less as shown in your "separate roofs" photograph. It was only a small window, as these things usually were.
As you will appreciate, when you actually went in to buy your ticket all you could really see (and indeed all you were realistically interested in) was the bloke on the other side of the window! It may well have been that the booking office itself also doubled as the SMO, but that is something I would not have noticed at the time. However, the windows at the Bristol end of that office (as shown on various photographs that we have seen) would certainly give a clear view of most of the station and the junction area, so it would have been a sensible place to put the SM.
And yes, the booking hall was dark. I cannot remember if there were windows to the covered way in the same wall as the entrance door, although I suspect there were, otherwise it would not just have been dark in there, it would have been pitch black
Alternatively there could of course have been borrowed lights to the adjacent rooms.I do not recall a support pillar in the booking hall.
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Robin Summerhill
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Sorry Dave - I've only just looked at your flickr site and I should have looked at that first before I posted the first time! Neverthless, all the comments I made up there still stand.
Inside booking hall: http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N ... otostream/
As I recall, there was only a single booking clerk's window and much smaller than the one shown here.
Pillar in booking hall: http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N ... hotostream
Personally I think that this "structure" is a red herring, and was probably put there at some time after closure., and at the same time as the "ornamental" wall. As I said in my last post, I do not recall any pillar in the booking hall.
Photo 55 - pedestrian access to station from Carsons Road and to Rodway Hill:
The rough wooden steps up to Rodway Hill were not there in the days that the station was open - presumably they have been put there by somebody, possibly the Council, since closure. There was no need for them in those days - as can be deduced from this photograph http://www.panoramio.com/photo/14558185 ... google.com the steep bank was nearly devoid of trees and shrubs in those days, and any passenger that wanted to gain access from the station from Mangotsfield village would have simply walked down the road and then down the approach.
Photo 56 - old pedestrian access from the station approach tarmaced area
Its difficult to see from the photograph exactly what I'm looking at, but the old pedestrian access kept much closer to the "cliff" wall than does the current access. I could never quite understand why those who have retained access to the station (presumably Sustrans?) allowed the old access to become overgrown and created a new one.
Photo 26:
You mention a stile - I do not recall one. Prior to the railway's closure and the creation of the cycle path, there was a public footpath leading from the station to Shortwood, immediately adjacent to the line (if you walk up there towards Shortwood, you will see the two fence lines in the undergrowth on the left). This path has largely become neglected, but there is one section of it which is quite clear and runs between two walls between the station approach and Carsons Road bridge.
If it stops raining for long enough this afternoon, I might go up and have a look!
Edited at 1524hrs for typos and clarity, just before I got in the car and went to have a look
Inside booking hall: http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N ... otostream/
As I recall, there was only a single booking clerk's window and much smaller than the one shown here.
Pillar in booking hall: http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N ... hotostream
Personally I think that this "structure" is a red herring, and was probably put there at some time after closure., and at the same time as the "ornamental" wall. As I said in my last post, I do not recall any pillar in the booking hall.
Photo 55 - pedestrian access to station from Carsons Road and to Rodway Hill:
The rough wooden steps up to Rodway Hill were not there in the days that the station was open - presumably they have been put there by somebody, possibly the Council, since closure. There was no need for them in those days - as can be deduced from this photograph http://www.panoramio.com/photo/14558185 ... google.com the steep bank was nearly devoid of trees and shrubs in those days, and any passenger that wanted to gain access from the station from Mangotsfield village would have simply walked down the road and then down the approach.
Photo 56 - old pedestrian access from the station approach tarmaced area
Its difficult to see from the photograph exactly what I'm looking at
, but the old pedestrian access kept much closer to the "cliff" wall than does the current access. I could never quite understand why those who have retained access to the station (presumably Sustrans?) allowed the old access to become overgrown and created a new one.Photo 26:
You mention a stile - I do not recall one. Prior to the railway's closure and the creation of the cycle path, there was a public footpath leading from the station to Shortwood, immediately adjacent to the line (if you walk up there towards Shortwood, you will see the two fence lines in the undergrowth on the left). This path has largely become neglected, but there is one section of it which is quite clear and runs between two walls between the station approach and Carsons Road bridge.
If it stops raining for long enough this afternoon, I might go up and have a look!
Edited at 1524hrs for typos and clarity, just before I got in the car and went to have a look
Last edited by Robin Summerhill on Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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horace
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It was me that thought the booking office window was on the left coming from Gloucester. As i said i could be wrong.
For some reason what sticks in my mind is as i said in Flickr is T&G boarding below the booking window. Behind the booking window was of course the booking clerk, but did he not have a rack of tickets behind him, i am sure i remember such. Perhaps Robin can remember if there was such a thing could it have been against the station masters office wall and was there perhaps a wooden partition wall in front of the back wall of the station masters office, and could the so say column base be the base of a under counter safe.
I must admit trying to remember a booking hall layout when one was a schoolboy is not the easiest, especially as every preserved station has similar layouts that definitely confuse one.
For some reason what sticks in my mind is as i said in Flickr is T&G boarding below the booking window. Behind the booking window was of course the booking clerk, but did he not have a rack of tickets behind him, i am sure i remember such. Perhaps Robin can remember if there was such a thing could it have been against the station masters office wall and was there perhaps a wooden partition wall in front of the back wall of the station masters office, and could the so say column base be the base of a under counter safe.
I must admit trying to remember a booking hall layout when one was a schoolboy is not the easiest, especially as every preserved station has similar layouts that definitely confuse one.
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Robin Summerhill
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I've been to have a look. This is one of these cases where you go somewhere at least once a week and then, when a detailed question comes up, you can't answer it
As I suspected, the "stile" that Dave mentioned is no more than a hole that has been knocked in the wall that separated the running lines from the public access areas. There was no public access at that point when the line was open because beyond that wall were the running lines (plus a head shunt from the "under the rock" bay).
As you stand in front of that opening in the wall, to your left is a gate where the footpath to Shortwood began, and indeed is still in use as far as Carsons Road bridge. From that point on it has beeen all but abandoned because the cycle path fits the bill better than the original footpth.
As I suspected, the "stile" that Dave mentioned is no more than a hole that has been knocked in the wall that separated the running lines from the public access areas. There was no public access at that point when the line was open because beyond that wall were the running lines (plus a head shunt from the "under the rock" bay).
As you stand in front of that opening in the wall, to your left is a gate where the footpath to Shortwood began, and indeed is still in use as far as Carsons Road bridge. From that point on it has beeen all but abandoned because the cycle path fits the bill better than the original footpth.
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model_geek
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With Robin's "turn right then left" route, that now locates the ticket office at the back, ie within/as part of the office at the Bristol end of the platform.
Robin or horace, have you any memory of the Bath waiting room in winter? Was it a large room, and can you remember the fireplace at all? I think it was central along the long inner wall.
I'll be visiting again on Saturday morning to see what other details can be tied down.
Once again, many thanks for all info. Much appreciated. I think I will have to put all this information together in some sort of booklet, as it would be a shame to forget it all again!!
Robin or horace, have you any memory of the Bath waiting room in winter? Was it a large room, and can you remember the fireplace at all? I think it was central along the long inner wall.
I'll be visiting again on Saturday morning to see what other details can be tied down.
Once again, many thanks for all info. Much appreciated. I think I will have to put all this information together in some sort of booklet, as it would be a shame to forget it all again!!
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Robin Summerhill
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I don't recall there being any waiting room on the main platforms other than the booking hall area. I might be wrong but I am sure that, as kids, we would have gone into them at some time or other before being chased out by "Jock"model_geek wrote:
Robin or horace, have you any memory of the Bath waiting room in winter? Was it a large room, and can you remember the fireplace at all? I think it was central along the long inner wall.
This photograph seems to bear that out - perhaps? http://www.flickr.com/photos/combomphot ... 493786@N23
There were the long thin waiting rooms on the up main line and the down branch from Bath platforms, and they have pretty well documented already
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model_geek
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Have posted new image on flickr of lamp room and staff toilet http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N04/7119077635 Please have a look and see if the rationale makes sense!!
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model_geek
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Well a distinct lack of evidence found today!! Nothing found for: a return wall between Porter's room and gent's loo; a gate across the footpath leading from carsons road entrance; any form of pillar to support other side of glass canopy, opposite the middle two pillars in main passageway.
However, i did find the remains of the small bay platform that was fed by spur off platform 1 bay platform. This was found at the bottom of the carsons road entrance and can be seen here http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N04/7120992455/
However, i did find the remains of the small bay platform that was fed by spur off platform 1 bay platform. This was found at the bottom of the carsons road entrance and can be seen here http://www.flickr.com/photos/65704889@N04/7120992455/
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model_geek
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Lamp room & Staff Toilet
Following on from a comment on flickr.com.....
Question: why was this not built as part of the booking hall & offices? If it was an 'afterthought', why are there 2 x 3ft windows in the section to the right of the main passageway arch? What was the original purpose for these? We have already seen that a 3ft window is used for a toilet (Ladies on Gloucester side), so was the left hand of the two meant to be blocked, and was it because of space limitation?
I think that this building was original, because of 2 reasons; firstly, the walls and coping stones all match the outer walls, and secondly as the station got wider as it went towards Gloucester/Bath, the necessary build would have been too much for the remaining requirements (lamp room & staff toilet) and may have been limited by cost.
Question: why was this not built as part of the booking hall & offices? If it was an 'afterthought', why are there 2 x 3ft windows in the section to the right of the main passageway arch? What was the original purpose for these? We have already seen that a 3ft window is used for a toilet (Ladies on Gloucester side), so was the left hand of the two meant to be blocked, and was it because of space limitation?
I think that this building was original, because of 2 reasons; firstly, the walls and coping stones all match the outer walls, and secondly as the station got wider as it went towards Gloucester/Bath, the necessary build would have been too much for the remaining requirements (lamp room & staff toilet) and may have been limited by cost.
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Robin Summerhill
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In case anybody doesn't know, this is a new site that is currently being developed, and contributions are being welcomed from anybody who's got any aerial photographs they might like to share.
Another source of archive information from aerial photographs can be found in Google Earth. Unfortunately, the whole of the country isn't covered yet. and even more unfortunately Bristol is one of those areas not yet covered. However, a long north to south strip between Bath and Swindon is.
To access this information, go to Google Earth and, as an example, zoom in on Chippenham. When you get closer in than about 40,000 feet (the altitude is shown in the bottom right hand corner of the screen) then you will see "1945" appear in the bottom left hand corner of the screen. Click on 1945 and the aerial views from that time will appear, and if you then zoom out, you will be able to see what areas of the country are covered.
An interesting way to spend a couple of hours if you've got nothing else pressing to do
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Blandford1969
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