Jubilees south of Mangotsfield

[Marsh'Un]

Re the previous comments on Scots.

Viewing this website on Sunday evening, my older (and more knowledgable) brother mentioned the working of 46109 on a Bristol T.M to Bath Green Park local in Sept(?) 1962.
Apparently the engine had worked south on the `Devonian` and the event was reported in the relevant issue of `Modern Railways`.
Presumably 82E was short of motive power that day.

The sight of a `Scot` pulling into Bitton Station with a `stopper` does sound
rather mouthwatering.....

Although I started to dabble in trainspotting during Summer-Autumn 1962,
my early days were spent at Stapleton Road station and T.M, with the odd visit to the Marsh.

Hence no Scots to be seen, but did manage to catch `King` 6023 on a Cardiff-Bristol local at Stapleton Rd, a few months before the engine was withdrawn in `62..

[Robin Summerhill]

Presumably 82E was short of motive power that day.

The sight of a `Scot` pulling into Bitton Station with a `stopper` does sound rather mouthwatering.....

All sorts of oddities could be seen when there were motive power shortages or other forms of disruption.

I was standing on Mangotsfield station one morning in the Christmas holidays of 1962 waiting for the 1010 ex-Bath to go to Bristol. The train turned up 90 minutes late behind a standard class 5 running tender first hauling one coach

Towards the end, diesels were also used on some of the the Green Park stoppers. One regular working was for a "Peak" on the 1535 Bristol to Bournemouth as far as Bath (of course!) coming back with the 1540 ex-Bournemouth West, 1903 ex-Bath. There is one of my photographs in the galleries on this site showing D70 on the job in August 1965.

Back to Scots, I'm pretty sure that I travelled behind one either to or from Staple Hill or Mangotsfield on a Gloucester stopper on one occasion. I can't give any further information unfortunately - just a vague bell ringing in the back of my head.

[the green mile]

Marsh'Un

Before my enforced move to Barrow Road, Stapleton Road was my local station so there is every chance our paths crossed back in the early 60's. Our family home backed onto the line halfway to Lawrence Hill and I went to Bannerman Road school until '64. I think a child return to Temple Meads was about 9d, a trip made regularly during the school holidays with my mates Cannon from Britannia Road, Phil from Chaplin Road and Bugle from a street beginning with H off Chaplin Road.

[trafalgar45682]

Marsh'Un wrote

the working of 46109 on a Bristol T.M to Bath Green Park local in Sept(?) 1962.

I was at Temple Meads when 46109 arrived on the 1V38 15.23 arrival from Sheffield. It was on Saturday September 15, 1962. I was waiting at the top end of Platform 5 for the Scot to make its way back to Barrow Road - but it never did. It turned up tender first at Platform 7 on the 17.05 stopping train to Bath, as Robin says, probably due to a shortage of motive power.

Bath Green Park also had a fill in turn for a Peak on the 10.49 arrival from Bath and the 11.49 return. It was the engine off the Leicester parcels arrival in Bath which departed with 3M28 20.25 Templecombe return parcels to Derby from Bath. If the train was steam hauled, Bath would provide one of its Standard tanks, 82004/41 for the working. This particular train was the last steam passenger working in Bristol, as by 1965 the diagrams had changed and a Standard tank 82001/44 worked the train. I believe it was last steam hauled on Saturday January 1, 1966.

As for 6023, it had a fairly regular working on 1V95 17.45 arrival from Manchester, going back on 1M99 19.15 Liverpool in the Spring of 1962. The train was dieselised from the beginning of the Summer service in June 1962.

[Marsh'Un]

Many thanks for the fascinating details on the Bath G.P locals.
The abiding memories of steam at T.M in 1965 are of the 82xxx tanks on the Bath locals and the 3 Oxley Brits on the summer Wolverhampton-Ilfracombe turns.

Re 6023, this was one of several Kings shedded at Canton at the time and I guess that 86C was at a loose end on how to employ them.
The only other `King` I saw in B.R service was 6016 at Dawlish on an up express circa 1961/62 - Viewed from the upper deck of a Devon General bus!

The comments from Green Mile has stirred a few thoughts on Stapleton Road -What a station it was back then.!
Four platforms, a refreshment room and to an impressionable youngster, a hive of activity.
Express and local passenger trains, numerous freights, the Severn Beach service plus (in season) specials to Clifton Down.

The station staff always seemed to have an aversion to `spotters being on their platforms and quite often on a summer Saturday, a notice would be positioned in the booking hall to the effect of "No platform tickets being sold today" . In which case us urchins would reside by the railings at the top of the approach from Stapleton Road itself.
On the subject of notices, 2 station signs which hung above the main platform offices/rooms that have stuck in the memory are "Tickets must be SHEWN (GWR/WR terminology?) and "You may telephone from here"

Stapleton Road station was also the starting point for school trips to London (Westminster Abbey/Tower of London/ Regents Park Zoo) and to Portsmouth Harbour (The Victory and Southsea) in 1967/68.

Also recollect alighting from a Cardiff-Portsmouth service around 1969-70(?), hauled by a D65xx diesel (Class 33), having travelled in a Gresley Buffet car, which was a regular feature on these workings at that time.

The station today really is a sad reflection on what happened to our railways in the following decades.

And for reasons of personal safety,a visit is definitely NOT recommended !!

[Robin Summerhill]

Although I started to dabble in trainspotting during Summer-Autumn 1962,
my early days were spent at Stapleton Road station and T.M, with the odd visit to the Marsh.

Hence no Scots to be seen, but did manage to catch `King` 6023 on a Cardiff-Bristol local at Stapleton Rd, a few months before the engine was withdrawn in `62..

This post is going off-topic, but it didn't seem worthwhile starting a new one!

This highlights the issue of having to be in the right place at the right time in those days - had you been standing on Lawrence Hill station rather than Stapleton Road you would have seen plently of Sctots during the back end of 1962.

But my "omission" is completely the reverse. Living as I did just beyond the eastern end of Staple Hill tunnel, and frequently going down to Temple Meads, I saw plently of Scots, Jubilees and even the odd Patriot, but I never saw a King in BR service. The only ones I ever saw prior to preservation days were nos 6011/18/25/26 outside Swindon works awaiting scrap.

As far as I am aware from the railway press at the time, the remaining Kings were still getting some work on the Paddington - Wolverhampton road in the last months of 1962, but does anybody have any notes of seeing a King in Bristol after August 1962?

[Pines Alan]

Having got a green from "Hattie", here goes. For brevity usually only numbers and dates shown; in some cases the loco may have been noted on Bath shed for a day - e.g. a Sunday - and not actually worked a train. This is certainly not a complete list of Jubilee locos that worked between Mangotsfield and Bath Green Park and there may well be one or two errors. My sources tend to be magazines and books etc with some specialist society newsletters. I have many more to get through so this is a "work in progress".
Loco allocations are shown when referred to on the original caption/text but no warranty is hereby offered! For example the reference to "Ayr" based locomotive 45687 (which has surfaced again in a recent periodical) came from a "Railway Observer" but Robin Summerhill on this forum has confirmed to me that it was a Corkerhill locomotive - which makes it no less an amazing visitor. I hope that there are no transcription and/or typing errors.
List is in loco number order.
? indicates date not recorded.

45557 ?;
45558 23/05/61;
45559 (10C) 27/12/51;

45562 04/08/62 (Sat);

45576 20/08/61;
45578 (12A) 05/06/53;

45590 (41C) 27/09/61 (Wed), 28/09/61 (Thur), 29/09/61 (Fri), 30/09/61 (Sat).

45591 (5A) 19/07/58;
45594 20/11/51, ??/07/61; 19/12/61 (Tues).

45602 (41D) 23/07/60;
45609 (19B) 19/11/51.

45610 captioned Fri 19/01/52 but this date was a Sat.
45611 (16A) 28/07/62 (Sat)
45612 ??/??/61
45624 18/09/57
45631 (9A) 02/08/52
45632 (9A) 14/08/54
45639 08/09/62
45647 ?
45649 11/04/63
45652 (9E) 18/08/51
45655 (5A) 30/05/58
45658 (55A) 11/08/62 (Sat); 07/11/63.

45674 (5A) 14/07/51
45682 23/04/62, 21/07/62 (Sat), 27/04/63 (Sat), Whit Mon 1964.

45683 (41C) 27/12/61 (Wed).

45687 (Corkerhill) 29/06/60 (Wed) 30/06/60 (Thur).
(in Railway Observer No 378 Aug 1960 as allocated Ayr )

45690 03/06/63 (Mon)

45691 12/04/55, 13/04/55.

45696 (Aston) 20/08/60 (Sat)

5697 (26A) ??/??/39
(ô2nd Jubilee to work into Bath ö according to Railway Observer No 125 for July 1939 - Pigeon special)

45701 08/08/59 (Sat)
45702 (26A) ??/??/52
45703 (5A) 10/05/58
45710 (Newton Heath) 03/05/60

45718 (9A) 18/08/51 (Sat) Pigeon special
(piloted by 43994 18A) Load 25


45723 (Upperby) 10/12/60(Sat), 11/12/60(Sun), 12/12/60(Mon).

45725 29/04/61 (Sat)


As I have said, nowhere near a complete list even if I had managed to trawl all the info that I have to hand. Anyone who spots any errors please let me know. If anyone wishes for more details or my source please let me know.

Finally, two little items that may put the feline among the birds. For years I was under the impression that Jubilees never worked over the S&D but recently I read somewhere that a Jubilee bringing in a southbound service was utilised to bank a train as far as Combe Down Tunnel as was usual practice. I am also reliably informed that 5612 was noted hauling a Bath to Bournemouth express at Blandford on 19 June 1947.This was reported in a magazine entitled "Railway Locomotives" for August 1947. This is/was a publication I have no knowledge of. The correspondent was "A.J.B."

Any comments welcome.

[jules]

The station today really is a sad reflection on what happened to our railways in the following decades.

And for reasons of personal safety,a visit is definitely NOT recommended !!

That's a rather unfair comment, if you don't mind my saying. I lived and worked near Stapleton Road station for five years and I've got many friends that still live there now. Never experienced anything bad. Apart from the odd bit of crime that you could expect anywhere, there is nothing "unsafe" about the area whatsoever.

So, I'd recommend a visit. Glib comments such as this do nothing but create false impressions in people's minds who don't know any better and ultimately reinforce completely false negatives about an area.

If you don't believe me, go visit St Marks Road and see for yourself!

Sorry to go off topic, but that mis-informed comment needed correcting.

I do agree though, the old place is a shadow of its former self. Does anyone remember that Stapleton Road was actually re-staffed and re-opened during the early 1970s re-signalling, as it handled a lot of traffic that was diverted away from Temple Meads?

[Marsh'Un]

Jules

My comment was based on an incident mentioned on this website a few years ago, where a photographer was relieved of his camera equipment on the station platforms, and also of various reports in the local press (admittedly not recently) of local people being attacked in the station environs.

If you still classify my comment as being glib and misinformed, I apologise.

[tonyperks]

Yes I remember the incident, It was the Coal Stone Haul Tour if i remeber correctly, he had been Videoing on the platform and had his camera taken from him amongst other things.

[jules]

My comment was based on an incident mentioned on this website a few years ago, where a photographer was relieved of his camera equipment on the station platforms, and also of various reports in the local press (admittedly not recently) of local people being attacked in the station environs.

Yes I remember that too. I think I commented at the time that Stapleton Road, being an inner city station, is probably not the best place to go standing around with valuable video equipment on plain display for all to see. Just a matter of common sense and people being a little more street-wise really. As to people being attacked, it was years ago and security and environment at Stapleton Road has been markedly improved in the years since. We wouldn't want to be needlessly scaring people off of public transport, eh? Thousands of people use Stapleton Road perfectly safely every week

If you still classify my comment as being glib and misinformed, I apologise.

No need at all Marsh'Un As someone who knows and loves the area, I just wanted to set the record straight. It gets a lot of needless bad press, which is not much fun for all the good people who live and work there.

[Marsh'Un]

Jules

Nice to know that the old haunt is thriving and has been made a safer place to be.
I also have a few memories of the area during the 1960`s-1980`s; 5 years at Greenbank School, purchasing my 1st pair of Specs at Sawtell`s opticians, playing skittles every fortnight at the Unigate club(White Lion)
and my mother doing her bi-weekly shopping in the area between Muller Road and Eastville Junction, when Eastville boasted a vast array of shops, a Cinema and local Police Station. (not to mention a fairly decent football stadium!)

Without wishing to sound controversial, I deliberately avoid that stretch of Fishponds/Stapleton Roads these days-the contrast is too great for someone of my age !.

Moving rapidly back to the original subject of this thread, I recall reading of a Jubilee on a southbound beer train from Burton having an unfortunate mishap in the Barrow Road area.
Before I start rummaging for the relevant magazine, does anyone out there have the details to hand ?

[trafalgar45682]

Marsh'Un wrote

a Jubilee on a southbound beer train from Burton having an unfortunate mishap in the Barrow Road area.

The accident happened on Feb 7, 1962. The Jubilee was 45615 on the Burton to Bristol freight which lost control on Fishponds Bank and ran into the empty stock of the 1E61 1.10 Sheffield. The line was blocked for most of the day.

Robin Summerhill wrote

does anybody have any notes of seeing a King in Bristol after August 1962?

The Kings I noted after August 1962 were :

Friday Sept 7

1C21 5.30 Paddington-Plymouth (via Bristol) 6019

Saturday Sept 8

1B04 8.45 Paddington-Weston 6018
1A74 14.35 Weston-Paddington 6018

Saturday Oct 15

1B08 9.45 Paddington-Bristol 6000
1A74 14.15 Bristol-Paddington 6000

Monday Dec 3

1C86 16.45 Paddington-Taunton 6000

Friday Dec 7

3B04 London-Bristol Parcels 6025
3C04 15.32 Bristol-Plymouth Parcels 6025

Wednesday Dec 18

3B04 London-Bristol Parcels 6011

There were probably other arrivals over this period

[jules]

Final comment then - I don't wish to hijack the thread

Without wishing to sound controversial, I deliberately avoid that stretch of Fishponds/Stapleton Roads these days-the contrast is too great for someone of my age !

I quite agree - it has changed beyond all recognition, but it still isn't so bad. I ran The Chelsea Inn (formerly The Clarence House) on Chelsea Road for four years and all the time I was there I had no trouble to speak of ever. Before that, I lived right on Stapleton Road by the Waggon & Horses (sadly demolished) and back then I loved it. Not that I'm about to move right back in though - times have changed even in the last ten years. But on the whole, the entire road is still pretty safe - despite what various politicians and the local press blather on about

[Robin Summerhill]

Robin Summerhill wrote

I never saw a King in BR service.......

does anybody have any notes of seeing a King in Bristol after August 1962?

The Kings I noted after August 1962 were :

Friday Sept 7
1C21 5.30 Paddington-Plymouth (via Bristol) 6019

Saturday Sept 8
1B04 8.45 Paddington-Weston 6018
1A74 14.35 Weston-Paddington 6018

Saturday Oct 15
1B08 9.45 Paddington-Bristol 6000
1A74 14.15 Bristol-Paddington 6000

Monday Dec 3
1C86 16.45 Paddington-Taunton 6000

Friday Dec 7
3B04 London-Bristol Parcels 6025
3C04 15.32 Bristol-Plymouth Parcels 6025

Wednesday Dec 18
3B04 London-Bristol Parcels 6011

Which proves the point admirably that you needed to be in the right place at the right time!

Sept 7th - the day before my interest was kindled!
Sept 8th - I was on the S&D going down to Bournemouth
Oct 15th - was probably at BTM in the morning and would have been sitting on the 1212 to Green Park on platform 15 when it came in!
Dec 3rd and Dec 7th - in school
Dec 18th - If the school holidays had started by then that year, no idea where I was, but obviously not at BTM seeing a King arrive