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Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:13 pm
by jules
The #2 route in those days turned around in that location and was probably one of the first cross city route.
One of the projects I have on my (very) back burner is to do an historical timeline of the development of Bristol bus routes. I think that might even be how this thread got so extended! I am interested how social and economic change led to the introduction of services and their subsequent modifications. For example, up until the 1960s half of the bus services went via Old Market and the other half via The Centre, reflecting the former importance of Old Market and its subsequent decline.
I am gradually piecing together information when I have five minutes here and there, so any recollections are very welcome!
There are some excellent books about Bristol Omnibus, but most concentrate on the vehicles rather than the routes and commercial / operating side of things. Maybe I shall be the first to eventually come up with a book on this extensive subject!
Re: The No. 33 bus thread
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:30 pm
by stantheman
Philip M. Hicks wrote:
Hi Phil,
There were 50 Leyland PD1s in the fleet, all allocated to Eastville depot and therefore as I remember they worked routes 2, 2A, 10, 18, 84, 284 etc.
Half had ECW bodies (eg C4044 - my all-time favourite bus) and the rest had local bodies supplied by Longwell Green or the company's own body shop at Brislington. I beleive you can remember the latter which were not very comfortable. Some of the Leylands had shiny radiator surrounds whilst others were painted black.
One point of correction. The route from Brislington to Sea Mills was the 1C not the 1D, the latter worked to Henbury Estate via Henbury. I lived around the corner from you in Coombe Dale for a while.
Nice memories.
Regards
Stan
The no. 33 bus thread
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:19 am
by Philip M. Hicks
Hello Jules - yes that is the school. It was the Engineering side of Bristol Technical School when I started there in January 1950. So that might tell you just how much older my memories of Bristol are than yours.
BTS at Bedminster? - Tannery to the left, tannery to the right, tannery behind and an undertaker in Boot lane to the front! A really stinking New Cut at the end of Stillhouse Lane and only one bridge for Bedminster Bridge.
However I did have a great form master for the first year or so - he used to organised us a trip to Swindon Works one Wednesday every term, that's three times a year! We would leave BTM on the 12,15 for London, I recall we were hauled by the first gas turbine #18000 on one trip. Our form master - Mr. Stannett, must have been a railway enthusiast of the first order! However he called it getting engineering experience, he was right as we always did the whole works tour not the spotters tour!
Did you look at my old blue Bristol bus photo? Some buses were still in the blue livery just post WW2 - Happy days, Phil Hicks, Australia.
The no. 33 bus thread.
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:33 am
by Philip M. Hicks
Hi Stan - I 'stan' corrected! Route 1c it was! Though one letter difference is not too bad after nearly sixty years - 38 of them in the Antipodes is it? It is a coincidence that we lived in streets so close to each other. What period did you live there? Your info on the two bodies for the Leylands is interesting.
On service route #2, I most likely saw both types at Sea Mills and I was a bit young when travelling on Bristol's buses to think much about comfort! I joined the RAF in September 1953 and by the time I was out of that I had my own wheels. However when I saw C4044's photo the other day I could only remember one body and in my mind it was different to the photograph. Your info proves my mind isn't too clouded yet!
Jules, I've looked at that picture of Stillhouse Lane, I think it was not quite so bad as it is in that picture during the period when I went to school there. The tanneries were very active and plenty of people worked around the area, so the cobbles [then] were highly polished with peoples feet, rubber and steel tyres and it was well lubricated with horse deposits both fluid and solids!
There were still lots of heavy horse carts around Bristol in the early 1950's, even more by the annex to the school in Temple Back near Old Market. The huge railway good sheds on Temple Way had dozens of horse drawn carts for local deliveries and at the other end of Temple Back on the Counterslip was Georges brewery, they also used horse drawn carts for local traffic. Beautiful big, soft natured animals with great fluffy feet and wearing lots of leather harness with shining brasses every where.
It was all a very different period in the life of Bristol. It is amazing just where this #33 bus thread is going! My regards, Phil H. Oz.
Re: The no. 33 bus thread.
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:27 pm
by Robin Summerhill
Philip M. Hicks wrote: There were still lots of heavy horse carts around Bristol in the early 1950's ...
But how quickly this changed!
I started primary school in 1957 and, prior to that I recall trying to get my mother to go shopping by 10am on a Tuesday morning, because the George's Brewery dray would be delivering to the Red Lion at Staple Hill (opposite the old bus depot - still a depot of course then) with a pair of Shire horses at the business end!
When Georges were taken over by Courage in 1960 that was the end of that (although even Georges might have gone over to lorries in the last 3 years - I was then usually in school at 10am on a Tuesday!
When I moved to Stockwood in 1964 the farm at the bottom of the hill (behind Brislington school) still used a horse and cart on a fruit and veg round up to Stockwood. But by then, to see horses working in this way was very unusual indeed.
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:59 am
by jules
BTS at Bedminster? - Tannery to the left, tannery to the right, tannery behind and an undertaker in Boot lane to the front! A really stinking New Cut at the end of Stillhouse Lane and only one bridge for Bedminster Bridge.
I was there in 1970 for a year. By then, the tanneries had long closed and the area was pretty scruffy and in terminal decline, it seemed. One tannery was still standing and derelict (next to the playground). Despite being absolutely banned from going in there, of course we did. There was a large (cow sized) ground level tank full of some noxious chemical - very dangerous really. We speculated that it was acid and that if you fell in, you'd be instantly vaporized! Frightening really. Strangely enough, I had no idea that old factory was a tannery until you mentioned it here.
My other memories of the school were the asbestos overflow classrooms in the yard and the long, wooden lean-to dinner hall. Do you remember them too? The gas heaters in the overflow classrooms emitted an intense and soporific heat - and probably fumes too. I will never forget having to sit daily next to one of those. By the afternoon classes, I was always nearly comatose during the winter. No wonder my grades weren't all that good during my first year.
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:09 pm
by jules
Here's a pic of Stillhouse Lane place in 1989 to demonstrate the dereliction. School playground was behind the large tannery factory on the left, but it had closed by then.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mikeygeee/3349042185/
bus routes
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:20 pm
by oldchapie
When i was 7 and living in Hilsborough flats in Hotwells one day a brand new bus was on Hotwells road
Me and another boy had been up the gas works to get coke for my aunt in our old pram the air raid siren went off and the bus driver reversed the bus into the entrance to the Baltic wharf coal yard and between the buildings was a girder and he went under it and took the roof off
just like they try to-day beneath railway bridges! I think that was the day the jerries bombed Filton. we got the coke up
to aunties and stayed in her air raid shelter they were the days.
ps I think the route no was no 84 sttarted from the landing stage to Brislington
Re: bus routes
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:58 pm
by stantheman
oldchapie wrote:
ps I think the route no was no 84 sttarted from the landing stage to Brislington
I believe the 84 ran from Hotwells to Downend before WW2 and after the war it became the 84 and 284. The buses took a circular route in the Downend area and every alternative bus ran the circular leg in the opposite direction to the previous one, hence the need to distinguish by using 84/284. Most routes would have used suffix letters, e.g. 1a/1b or 1d/1e
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:58 pm
by jules
I believe the 84 ran from Hotwells to Downend before WW2 and after the war it became the 84 and 284. The buses took a circular route in the Downend area and every alternative bus ran the circular leg in the opposite direction to the previous one, hence the need to distinguish by using 84/284.
Indeed it did as my 1948 map shows. Though according to my 1953 map, the confusing alternate circular bits at the Downend end had ceased, with just the 84 going via Bromley Heath to reach Downend and the 284 only running direct along Downend Road. Outbound from the Central area, this route ran along Newfoundland Road, the final bit of Lower Ashley Road and then Warwick Road to join Stapleton Road just before the station.
By 1959, the 84 had changed to run from Bromley Heath to Cribbs Causeway via the Downs, which ran for many years. Hotwells was then served by the No 7, which ran to Blackboy Hill Top via Stokes Croft and Redland Road.
By 1962, the 7 from Hotwells had changed to the 14 which ran to New Cheltenham via Lawrence Hill, Whitehall and Speedwell, restoring the link to the east of the city. Later, it changed into the 15, which I seem to remember went to Westbury via Cotham and Elton Road / Kings Drive / Wellington Hill, much as the current route of the 20.
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:45 pm
by stantheman
By 1959, the 84 had changed to run from Bromley Heath to Cribbs Causeway via the Downs, which ran for many years.
There was also an 84B which ran from Bromley Heath to Westbury and then took the old 1C route from Westbury to Sea Mills continuing to Lawrence Weston.
Hotwells was then served by the No 7, which ran to Blackboy Hill Top via Stokes Croft and Redland Road.
By 1962, the 7 from Hotwells had changed to the 14 which ran to New Cheltenham via Lawrence Hill, Whitehall and Speedwell, restoring the link to the east of the city. Later, it changed into the 15, which I seem to remember went to Westbury via Cotham and Elton Road / Kings Drive / Wellington Hill, much as the current route of the 20.
The 15 then continued from Westbury to Shirehampton Green, via Henbury and Lawrence Weston.
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:02 pm
by Robin Summerhill
jules wrote:The #2 route in those days turned around in that location and was probably one of the first cross city route.
One of the projects I have on my (very) back burner is to do an historical timeline of the development of Bristol bus routes. I think that might even be how this thread got so extended! I am interested how social and economic change led to the introduction of services and their subsequent modifications. For example, up until the 1960s half of the bus services went via Old Market and the other half via The Centre, reflecting the former importance of Old Market and its subsequent decline.
I am gradually piecing together information when I have five minutes here and there, so any recollections are very welcome!
There are some excellent books about Bristol Omnibus, but most concentrate on the vehicles rather than the routes and commercial / operating side of things. Maybe I shall be the first to eventually come up with a book on this extensive subject!
As we discussed earlier in this thread, the evolution of the bus services would have reflected increased need in the new outer suburbs as the city grew.
As Bristol City Council were closely involved in the provision of city services, there will be a wealth of information available in the archive Council minutes.
I don't know where they are kept (my specialist wading through Council minutes has been in Wiltshire in their County Records Office
), but I suspect if you were to ask nicely in the Council Offices or the Central Reference library (the latter is probably the better bet) they would certainly point you in the right direction
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:21 pm
by jules
As Bristol City Council were closely involved in the provision of city services, there will be a wealth of information available in the archive Council minutes.
Probably in the City Records Office down in Smeaton Road, Hotwells. The records available are searchable online, but you have to go there to actually have a look. Maybe a project for my next return to the UK.
Meanwhile, all memories and info much appreciated.
Does anyone recall route 17? According to my map, it operated from Temple Meads to the Centre. That must have been a pretty boring job!
The 15 then continued from Westbury to Shirehampton Green, via Henbury and Lawrence Weston.
Thanks. I'd forgotten that extra bit to Shire.
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:41 pm
by Robin Summerhill
jules wrote:As Bristol City Council were closely involved in the provision of city services, there will be a wealth of information available in the archive Council minutes.
Probably in the City Records Office down in Smeaton Road, Hotwells. The records available are searchable online, but you have to go there to actually have a look.
These things aren't usually as daunting as they may seem at first thought. Council minutes are usually filed by reference to the Committee involved. I'm guessing, but there will probably be a Highways & Transportation Comittee (or some such) that would have dealt with the "nitty-gritty" (ie. requests for new routes, what the bus company had to say, recommendations to the full Council on what action to take etc). If you can find the right Minute Book, everything you need should be in there
(Just swanning off on a tangent for a moment, depending on how far you want to go back, Council Minutes were a lot more concise before about 1930 when typewriters began to be used. When they had to be written out by hand you find that the art of precis was not yet dead
)
The no. 33 bus route.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:03 am
by Philip M. Hicks
Hello Jules, I can recall route #17 - It did run from the Centre to Temple Meads as you said. The terminus at BTM was along side of Brunel's old train shed on the left of the ramp as it levelled out. It was always serviced by a single decker bus. The various routes described in other replies all seem to be a bit complicated to me. Then, I suppose things were just a bit less complicated in the 1950's!
I was looking at a Google Earth photo of the swing bridge on Prince Street, A sign says ' Weak Bridge' 3 Ton limit! The #99 bus and many others that started in Prince St. used to all roll over it! Their wheels I recall ran in two steel runways with timber bulks in the centre in between them. That was another legacy of horse drawn carts I believe. The horses would have lost their footing on the shiny steel runways. I'm not sure what happened to the larger carts with a pair of horses pulling them?
There were many city suburban routes that started in Prince St. I might get the numbers the wrong way around but the #138 went to Headley Park [ shops at the bottom of St Peter's Rise. Route 238 went to the school in Cheddar Grove via Bedminster Down. Routes 132 and 232 Went to Broomhill [ ? ] or somewhere South of Knowle. Speaking of Cheddar Grove, Bedminster Down - in the late 1940's one of my earlier memories is that the #22 bus started there and went to where the 'Maytree Inn' is [or was ] on St. Peter's Rise, Headly Park. Yes that is all the #22 route was in the late 1940's! It was service by Bedford petrol engined wartime coach [!!] wooden slatted seats and the gear change had a protective rail around it as the only door was beside the driver at the front. I remember they really screamed climbing up the rise!
Back to Prince St. buses for Wells, Cheddar and Portishead also started in Prince St. Also as previously mentioned by me the #99 started for Avonmouth via Hotwells and the Portway at as fast a gallop as an old Bristol banger could do! They really had the oldest double deckers for that route. The regos all had only two letters such as HT / HU / HW /and HY - flat fronted old rattlers! Happy memories from Phil H. Australia.
PS. My wife who came from Bedminster Down tells me that the 238's destination was ' Uplands' but she is not sure were the terminus was. Re the 132/232 I have an idea one might have been destined for 'Filwood Broadway' - I've very little idea where that is but it must be in the South of Bristol. Phil H. Oz.