The no. 33 bus thread ....

[Robin Summerhill]

caught the 33 bus

I don't wish to hijack this thread, so I'll start a new one about the 33 bus (and others) a little later today

Jules promised us a 33 bus thread on another thread a few days ago, but perhaps he's forgotten, so I'll kick it off

Way way back in the early 1960s, I was happily minding my own business at the bottom of Temple Meads station approach, when a Bath-bound 33 service turned up with the prototype Bristol Lodekka (LC5000 LHY 949) working it. I immediately decided on a quick trip to Keynsham, and that was the only time I ever sat in that particular vehicle.

I've been searching the internet today in vain trying to find a photograph of the prototype, but my search has drawn a blank.

Has anybody else ever seen it and/or have a photograph? I also seem to recall that 5000 was not running in the then-standard Bristol green livery. I seem to recall it being in maroon but that might be the memory playing tricks.

(I know this has got nothing to do with railways but things have gone a little quiet around here today )

[trafalgar45682]

I used to live in Cotham and travel to St Brendan's College in Brislington every day from the ages of 12-18. I used to catch the 8.15 33, which was always a "70". I sometimes caught the 33A which was always a KSW - one of the ones with doors at the back - in the 83xx series I think.

I worked temporarily on the buses during the Summer of 1969 as a conductor. Here is a rather embarrassing picture of me at journey's end at Cribbs Causeway on the 84 service. Based at Lawrence Hill depot, I never worked on the 33.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolste ... 486397498/

I have a feeling my badge number was 44729 - also the number of a Black 5, which is underlined in my Combined Volume. A rather tenuous link with railways, I think you will agree.

[jules]

Jules promised us a 33 bus thread on another thread a few days ago, but perhaps he's forgotten, so I'll kick it off

No I didn't forget. I've just been building up to it

A rather tenuous link with railways, I think you will agree.

Well, it's better than nothing, so now we have validated the thread as rail related, we can continue

OK following the mammoth (and successfully resolved) Location Quiz, here is the next challenge. I am interested in how bus routes developed in Bristol. I have most of (and can remember) the info post 1967 or so (I think when all city services were re-numbered to be less than 100), but I have little from before that time.

That's why I instantly picked up on Robin's reference to the 33 route - Bristol to Bath I presume, but now with the added interest of it running via Cotham? What was the full route? From when until when?

A lot of people have studied the vehicles, but to my knowledge, hardly anybody has come up with a definitive guide to the routes and the reasons behind them. Maybe there is even a book in the subject? A sort of social history ...

What started me on this is because I am convinced that when I was a kid, there were far more routes and options than are on offer today, but without a large amount of research and collation, it would be pretty difficult to actually prove that and actually analyze the decline (or improvement - whatever ... ) I then got interested in the social fabric behind all these former routes. Who planned them? Who used them? Which factories etc. did they serve? Why were they modified or scrapped - and when?

For example, I am convinced the 75/76, Southmead - Hartcliffe of today (7/7A in the past) would have been introduced to connect the two great council estates of the 1950's with each other, so that people who formerly lived in the Central area but were relocated could have stayed in touch (despite the animosity that later developed). I don't know for sure, but I do find it interesting.

So, all those "Bristol Bus Routes of the past" memories (particularly pre-1960s) would be most appreciated ... I'll collate them and see what we come up with!

prototype Bristol Lodekka (LC5000 LHY 949) working it.

I remember it well - There is a book called "Bristol Omnibus - The Green Years" - Very informative and with lots of details and a few pics of this vehicle. I borrowed it just a few months ago from the library. See http://www.thegreenyears.co.uk/ - it has sold out apparently.

[trafalgar45682]

I should have been clearer in my post. I walked from Cotham to Marlborough Street Bus Station to catch the 33. It was all downhill. Coming home I would sometimes wait for a 145 which I would catch to Kingsdown Parade (now no 20).

I seem to remember that most city buses were numbered in the 1-100 series, with a few exceptions like the 145, 133, 144, and 236. Here is another link with railways. The 236 used to pass over the arches of Barrow Road Shed. I think in the ealy 60's most city buses went to and from the Centre / Broadmead / Old Market. Bristol Omnibus Company then introduced most through services.

[Robin Summerhill]

Jules has already picked up on a point of clarification - the 33 service that I was talking about was the route number in 1966 (the the time of the S&D closure - there you are, railway reference again!!) of the Bristol to Bath service via Keynsham. On the comprehenive route renumbering that took place in 1968 or so it became the 339. I presume the "33" that Trafalgar speaks of is a post-renumbering city service.

I know (or think I know) about some of Jules' queries, but I am digging into the brain's archives for it becuase I'm talking about things I found out 40-odd years ago and can't reference them now.

The need for bus services would have been/ was driven by new housing developments, and the need for public transport, primarily into the City Centre. This was one of the main reasons that buses were preferred to trams, because they could be more flexible and, of corse, incurred no infrastructure costs to speak of when a new route was introduced.

Putting my Surveyors hat on for a moment, by the look of them the first major council housing developments in Bristol were in Knowle West, St Annes and Southmead in the 1930s, followed after the war by such places as Lawrence Weston, Hartcliffe and Withywood. Bus services would have been developed as these new estates became occupied. Private housing developments also of course tended to occur on the outskirts of the then developed area (eg. most of the outskirts of Westbury on Trym looks like it was put there in the 1930s) and the buses would of course also serve these. Bus services were extended as the need arose, for example the no.4 service that ran from Staple Hill into the city was extended eastwards to Hillhouse Estate in the 1950s and then on to Blackhorse in the early 1960s

I read somewhere that the move towards cross-city services was driven by a desire not to have buses turning around in the City Centre with their associated layover times. I don't think it was generally to do with Jules' suggestion that people could still keep in touch, because my (limited) experience suggests that individual estates tended to be populated by people from whatever Slum Clearance scheme was going on at the time. For example, when Barton Hill and St Phillips were flattened in the 1950s and early 60s, those that didn't go into the new high rise flats in Barton Hill/ Lawrence Hill mainly ended up in Hartcliffe.

There were some old anomalies in the early 1960s that had been perpetuated for years. A company called Bence Motor Services was taken over by the Bristol company in 1934, and this company ran services to the east and north east of the city north of the River Avon. In the 60s they were all numbered in the range 300-319 and were all operated from Hanham depot. One anomaly was the 319 (Staple Hill - Pucklechurch/ Parkfield/ Hinton/ Dyrham) which terminated at Staple Hill Page Park and passengers then used the city services for onward travel. They began to run a few peak hour services through to the Bus Station in the early 1960s. Similarly, the 34 service ran from Westbury on Trym to Pilning and Severn Beach, with only a very few being extended into Bristol.

I could waffle on about this for ages, but I'll give it a rest for the time being so that somebody else can have a go! However, one final point for now:

Sometimes local councils (ie the Rural District Councils etc prior to 1974) would push for new services to be provided. One particular example that I know about (because I was plodding through Malmesbury Borough Council minutes form the 1960s some years ago, and I also remember the service) was the Bath Tramways service 67 that ran for a couple of years between Bath and Malmesbury via Acton Turville. The Council had had representations from people who needed to go to see their relations in hospital in Bath, and finally the bus company relented and gave them a service. It was not well patronised, did not make any money so, after those two years, the service was withdrawn. They compensated for it by slightly adjusting the timings of the Bath service 52 (Bath to Chipping Sodbury) so that there was a good connection at Cross Hands with the 31 Bristol to Malmesbury service.

[trafalgar45682]

The 33 I used to catch was the Country service Bristol to Bath. There was sometimes some friction between the passengers going to Bath and the school boys going to Brislington, as the bus was often very crowded.

Another railway link. I travelled on the last S&D service train from Bournemouth to Bath on Saturday March 5, 1966. The train was hauled by 80041 and 80043. It arrived at Green Park an hour late and as I ran to catch the last 33 to Bristol, it was just pulling out. I had a few hours wait on Bath Spa Station to get to Bristol.

[Robin Summerhill]

Another railway link. I travelled on the last S&D service train from Bournemouth to Bath on Saturday March 5, 1966. The train was hauled by 80041 and 80043. It arrived at Green Park an hour late and as I ran to catch the last 33 to Bristol, it was just pulling out. I had a few hours wait on Bath Spa Station to get to Bristol.

Answered over on the S&D thread, so we don't hijack this one!

[jolly47roger]

Bristol Bus Routes of the past

I am searching my memory back to the 50s and 60s....

I recall that the 'country' routes from Bristol were numbered clockwise.

Bridgwater 23, Weston 24, Clevedon 25 and so on. Maybe I can find an old timetable. I used to go to school in Weston on the 90 (Worlebury to Uphill); the 40 went from Worle to the 'coronation' estate

[jules]

Here is a rather embarrassing picture of me at journey's end at Cribbs Causeway on the 84 service.

Fabulous two pics. I never, ever understood the 84 route. Surely there was nothing at Cribbs Causeway back in the 60's? Whoever went there ...

And as for Bromley Heath, for someone who lived in Central Bristol, it sounded most exotic - like somewhere the other side of London!

[Robin Summerhill]

Bristol Bus Routes of the past

I am searching my memory back to the 50s and 60s....

I recall that the 'country' routes from Bristol were numbered clockwise.

Bridgwater 23, Weston 24, Clevedon 25 and so on. Maybe I can find an old timetable. I used to go to school in Weston on the 90 (Worlebury to Uphill); the 40 went from Worle to the 'coronation' estate

But unfortunately, there the pattern ends.

26 Gloucester via Wootton under Edge
27 Wells
29 Gloucester/ Cheltenham via Thornbury
30 Thornbury
31 Malmesbury/ Swindon
32 Cirencester (north of the 31 service)
33 Bath
34 Severn Beach/ Pilning
35 Chippenham
38 Bishop Sutton/ Chew Magna area
39 Much the same as 38

Sad case that I am, this comes from my 1964 timetable

[Robin Summerhill]

Surely there was nothing at Cribbs Causeway back in the 60's? Whoever went there ...

Cribbs Causeway then is not the same as what we think of as Cribbs Causeway now. Cribbs Causeway was then (and still in fact is) the dual carriageway that leads up from Henbury towards the M5.

The buses that ran to "Cribbs Causeway" back in the 60s actually turned somewhere near Station Road, just over the railway bridge

[Pompey Lad]

I have been lurking on the site for some time, and never had much worth contributing.

However, I can recommend the Bristol Bus Routes website at www.bvbg.org.uk/Routes.htm. You can check which routes ran in which years, although the maps are a bit disappointing. I came to Bristol as an adult, so do not have that encyclopaedic knowledge which can be gained by the schoolboy. Others will have much more to contribute.

[Robin Summerhill]

I have been lurking on the site for some time, and never had much worth contributing.

However, I can recommend the Bristol Bus Routes website at www.bvbg.org.uk/Routes.htm. You can check which routes ran in which years, although the maps are a bit disappointing. I came to Bristol as an adult, so do not have that encyclopaedic knowledge which can be gained by the schoolboy. Others will have much more to contribute.

Welcome aboard! (pardon the pun)

Sorry to bring you bad news on your first post, but that link gives a "Page not found" error mesage! I've been to the bvbg wesbsite, but I can't find a link there either - is it perhaps a "members only" page?

[BristleGWR]

I have been lurking on the site for some time, and never had much worth contributing.

However, I can recommend the Bristol Bus Routes website at www.bvbg.org.uk/Routes.htm. You can check which routes ran in which years, although the maps are a bit disappointing. I came to Bristol as an adult, so do not have that encyclopaedic knowledge which can be gained by the schoolboy. Others will have much more to contribute.

Welcome aboard! (pardon the pun)

Sorry to bring you bad news on your first post, but that link gives a "Page not found" error mesage! I've been to the bvbg wesbsite, but I can't find a link there either - is it perhaps a "members only" page?

It's got a dot at the end of the address that shouldn't be there, try http://www.bvbg.org.uk/routes.htm

[jules]

There is this leaflet on there:

http://www.bvbg.org.uk/renumbering.htm

Mainly about country routes though. I was never allowed on country buses as a kid.

As I recall, if you stopped the 329 Thornbury bus in Filton, it stopped at only the major stops on the way into town and the fares were twice what they were on the city buses (3, 6, 36, 98).

Many a freezing morning as a schoolboy I watched the 329 thunder past when all the aforementioned city services seemed to have disappeared off the face of the earth!