Bristol-Mangotsfield line

[Geoffers]

I very much admire all the wonderful photographs on this site. I have a special interest in Ashley Hill Station since I lived close to it as a child in the fifties and remember going train-spotting there. However, my greatest fascination is reserved for the Thirteen Arches and the line it carried that ran to Mangotsfield, particularly as I have virtually no memory of it! As a Bristol Rovers supporter back then I obviously remember the arches, and the bridge over nearby Glenfrome Road, but I cannot remember seeing any trains running on it, nor can I remember the section where it evidently split off from the line coming out of Montpelier and went over the main line from Bristol to the Midlands and beyond. I assume from there to the 13 Arches was all over ground.

I have walked the section of the Bristol to Bath railway path from Royate Hill onwards through the ex-stations of Fishponds, Staple Hill & Mangotsfield, but donÆt remember them, either. Although as a family we often travelled from Ashley Hill and Montpelier, I think itÆs possible we never used the line to Mangotsfield. IÆd be interested to know when it was finally discontinued and when the track and bridge that ran across the main line at Narroways was demolished, leaving the stubs we can still see today.

Nowadays I live off Ashley Down Road and have a view of the main line, looking over a field that was once the Sefton Park School playing field. Watching the occasional steam train go by brings the memories flooding back!

[Robin Summerhill]

There are a number of potential answers to this depending on what, precisely, you are asking!

Local passenger services between Kingswood Junction and Montpelier ceased on 31st March 1941. Most ran from Mangotsfield or Fishponds to Clifton Down, but there were a few extended to Bath and Avonmouth.

Freight traffic between Kingswood Junction and Montpelier ended some time in 1965 (can't remember exactly when)

Local passenger services on the main line were withdrawn in two stages. The local service to Gloucester ended on 4th January 1965, the Bath trains on 7th March 1966. On this date the stations at Fishponds, Staple Hill and Mangotsfield closed.

The main line between Mangotsfield North and Bristol closed abruptly following a landslip between Staple Hill and Fishponds on Boxing Day 1969.

Freight traffic could still reach Bath via Yate until that line too was closed in mid-1971.

[Geoffers]

There are a number of potential answers to this depending on what, precisely, you are asking!

Local passenger services between Kingswood Junction and Montpelier ceased on 31st March 1941. Most ran from Mangotsfield or Fishponds to Clifton Down, but there were a few extended to Bath and Avonmouth.

Freight traffic between Kingswood Junction and Montpelier ended some time in 1965 (can't remember exactly when)

Thanks very much - excellent answer! It also explains why I thought the family never travelled from Montpelier to Bath - the service finished before we were a family!

It's fascinating, though also sad, to walk the old line and see little trace of the old stations, especially Kingswood Junction.

[Robin Summerhill]

Kingswood Junction has been totally obliterated by housing development - from time to time I have gone down there to try to locate the exact position, but I have failed every time!

The viaduct at Royate Hill is still there (I think - rather a long time since I looked!) and the line crossed the main A432 Fishponds road on a bridge just south west of the Muller Road junction. You can still see the dip in the road where the bridge was once above it.

Beyond there it ran on an embankment and crossed Stapleton Road more or less at the south end of M32 junction 2. I remember remarking at the time they removed the embankment to redevelop the site (which was mid-1970s) that it showed how valuable development land had become, if it was worth shifting a railway embankment to develop it!

The last time I looked, the bridge abutments where the line crossed the South Wales line were still there (although I haven't been down there by train for years), just beyond the point where the Severn Beach line curves off to the left.

If I remember rightly, the Kingswood junction line ran parallel to the Severn Beach line for a short stretch, before joining it at a junction before Montpelier Station.

Having given the matter of closure some more thought, I'm fairly certain that it finally closed to freight around September 1965. As far as I know, there were no reguar diesel workings on the line (I certainly never saw any) and I think all freight at the end was being worked by LMS 4F 0-6-0s. A couple of years earlier the S&D 7Fs could be seen on the line working coal trains to Stapleton Road gas works and also Avonmouth-Westerleigh and Bath trip freights.

[Robin Summerhill]

I cannot remember seeing any trains running on it,

I accept that I'm turning into a sad case now, but I've just checked my winter 1959 working timetable to see how much use the line got!

Times at Kingswood Junction were as follows:

0713 down 0650 Westerleigh - Clifton Down
0820 down 0812 St Phillips to Avonmouth engine and van (run as required)
0905 down 0845 Westerleigh - Stapleton Road Gas Works
0950 up 0940 Stapleton Road Gas Works - Westerleigh (engine and van)
1055 down 1035 Westerleigh - Stapleton Road Gas Works
1130 down 1105 Westerleigh - Avonmouth
1142 up 1132 Stapleton Road Gas Works - Bath (engine and van)
1515 up 1340 Avonmouth - Westerleigh
1747 down 1720 Westerleigh - Avonmouth
1915 down 1817 Bath - Avonmouth
1945 down 1933 Barrow Road - Avonmouth (engine and van)
2021 up 1930 Avonmouth - Fishponds
2050 down 2047 Fishponds - Avonmouth (engine and van)
2203 down 2152 Barrow Road - Avonmouth (engine and van)

The down engine and van workings to Avonmouth were Barrow Road engines going to take up Midlands-bound trains that would travel via Henbury and the Yate loop. These would have reversed at Kingswood Junction

[jules]

I am absolutely convinced that in 1964/5 or so, when I was just four years old, my Father took me on a trip from Clifton to Bath via Mangotsfield. I remember being told it would be the last and only time we could ever do this journey, so it was important that I was taken along ...

Now, I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but there must have been a special that was run just before the line closed. Anybody remember anything about it?

[Robin Summerhill]

I am absolutely convinced that in 1964/5 or so, when I was just four years old, my Father took me on a trip from Clifton to Bath via Mangotsfield. I remember being told it would be the last and only time we could ever do this journey, so it was important that I was taken along ...

Now, I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but there must have been a special that was run just before the line closed. Anybody remember anything about it?

I don't recall any passenger workings over the line as late as that, although of course it is not impossible.

However, the year intrigues me. The Bristol-Bath Green Park line was originally scheduled for closure under the Beeching plan published in 1963, the original closure announcement was made (I think that too was in 1963 but I can't be certain - certainly no later than 1964), it was appealed. an inquiry took place and the eventual closure date was originally 3rd January 1966. This was postponed until 6th March because one of the replacement bus operators, Wakes Services of Wincanton, withdrew its application for a licence (the line was included with the S&D closure, hence the odd situation arising of a replacement bus service in Wincanton preventing Fishponds station closing!)

I mention all this because your father may have been referring tp the Bristol-Bath line as the last time you could do this journey. Your train may actually have run via Temple Meads, giving three additional stops for extra traffic (Stapleton Rd, Lawrence Hill and BTM itself)

[jules]

Thanks for the Wincanton update, I've read about that.

I mention all this because your father may have been referring tp the Bristol-Bath line as the last time you could do this journey. Your train may actually have run via Temple Meads, giving three additional stops for extra traffic (Stapleton Rd, Lawrence Hill and BTM itself)

No I'm certain we travelled via Ashley Hill - Kingswood Junction. I can distinctly remember my Father pointing out the Rover's ground as we went over the thirteen arches!

We used to use the GWR route frequently and that wouldn't have been anything out of the ordinary, which makes the Clifton to Bath trip stick in my mind even more.

[mjt]

Jules,
Can you remember if it was a DMU or steam (or diesel) hauled special?

[jules]

Jules,
Can you remember if it was a DMU or steam (or diesel) hauled special?

I believe it was a DMU. I am sure it was advertised in the local paper, as I can remember there was some prior excitement about the prospect of doing the trip.

[Robin Summerhill]

Jules,
Can you remember if it was a DMU or steam (or diesel) hauled special?

I believe it was a DMU. I am sure it was advertised in the local paper, as I can remember there was some prior excitement about the prospect of doing the trip.

As only Barrow Road and Green Park men knew the road between Kingswood Junction and Montpelier, and they didn't have any regular work on DMUs, then presumably a pilotman would be needed for the DMU driver.

Mind you, in those days, nobody thought that much about whether a special would make any money, as long as it attracted passengers!

I wonder if there would be anything in the Bristol Evening Post archives about the trip?

[Roger]

According to a booklet produced by the Avon County Planning Department in 1983 the link to Fishponds via Kingswood Jc from Avonmouth closed on 14 June 1965. The Middleton Press book about the Green Park to BTM route has a page or two about Kingswood Jc and mentions that the line to Clifton Down was used for passenger services from 1 Oct 1847 to 1 January 1917 and latterly from 5 May 1919 to 31 March 1941. It also confirmed that freight ceased on 14 June 65.

[Marsh'Un]

Jules

I have a feeling that your journey may have taken place in July 1963, behind a Standard 3 (82xxx) tank.

The special was an RCTS railtour.

If you need more details, let me know.

[Robin Summerhill]

..... The Middleton Press book about the Green Park to BTM route has a page or two about Kingswood Jc and mentions that the line to Clifton Down was used for passenger services from 1 Oct 1847 ....

Probably a typo in the book or the typing - the line was opened in 1874

[NDTSDN]

Jules

I have a feeling that your journey may have taken place in July 1963, behind a Standard 3 (82xxx) tank.

The special was an RCTS railtour.

If you need more details, let me know.

http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/60s/630721lc.html