Barrow Road 40th anniversary of closure - 16th Nov

[trafalgar45682]

Apologies !

Slip of the pen here. I meant to write engines were stabled on Bath Road, in the sidings alongside the diesel depot. I noted a number of them from the top of the 33 bus on my way to and from school in the early months of 1966. The irony is that Bath Road was the first of the three Bristol Depots to be closed to steam and dieselised, but it was the last to stable steam engines sent to Bristol by Gloucester for north bound steam turns after the closure of Barrow Road

[Robin Summerhill]

Apologies !

Slip of the pen here. I meant to write engines were stabled on Bath Road, in the sidings alongside the diesel depot.

That explains that then!

This correspondence reminds me of two incidents, neither of which is completely on-topic but don't really justify a new thread to themselves.

First, steam at Bath Road. I didn't arrive there (in a work capacity) until 1971, by which time steam was just a memory in Bristol. However, one day (probably between 1974 and 1976) we had David Sheppard's Standard 4, 75029, on shed as it was going somewhere and 82A was a sensible overnight stop. It was stabled in the sidings between the Heavy Lifting Shop and the river, but managed to get itself derailed.

The duty Breakdown Foreman that morning was one Reg Paton. who had to virtually be physically restrained from applying his old skills to the rerailing job. He had instructed his gang to split engine and tender, and needed one hell of a lot of convincing that they could drag the engine back on the road without doing so

Secondly, my last trip down the Midland main line behind steam. This happened in the late summer of 1965, so from my records would probably have been 31st July, 16th or 26th August or possibly 4th September (my detailed notes of these things all got chucked out when my parents wanted my old bedroom back in 1970!!)

I was on the 1635 ex-Sheffied behind the usual Peak when it started running very slowly south of Bromsgrove, and the clouds of black smoke coming from the exhaust suggested all was not well up at the sharp end. The train hobbled its way to Gloucester, where we stopped for quite some time. First, a fitter came up from the shed and tinkered for 15-20 minutes with no clear benefit to the engine. Shortly afterwards, a wheezing Black 5, leaking steam from the majority of places that it could, turned up from Horton Road and was attached to the front end, and had the task of hauling the stricken peak plus its 8 coaches to Bristol.

Speeds out of Gloucester as far as Tuffley were little faster than walking pace, but the fireman managed to get some steam out of the thing after that, and it did eventually get its train to Brisol, although if I remember correctly we didn't get much above 40 all the way. The train arrived about 90 late that night!

[Robin Summerhill]

... engines were stabled on Bath Road, in the sidings alongside the diesel depot. I noted a number of them from the top of the 33 bus on my way to and from school in the early months of 1966.

Just another thought on this - can you remember what classes we are talking about and whether they were in steam?

It was not unknown at that time for ex-SR locomotives being taken to South Wales for scrap to be stabled around the Bristol area waiting forwarding.

Whilst Bath Road had a turntable and I am sure that steam locomotives could have been watered somehow or another, there were of course no coaling facilities. So anything that worked as far south as Bristol (by the early months of 1966) would have had to have enough in their tenders to get them back to Saltley.

And a PS to my earlier post about my last steam haulage into Bristol - I recall that it was just getting dark when we left Gloucester at about 2050, so that would suggest 31st July or 16th August were the more likely. By the 26th August with sunset around 2008, there would be very little light left by 2050.

[trafalgar45682]

Here are some details.

Thursday December 23 44858, 92230 (Gloucester still open at this time)

On Monday December 27 I was at Gloucester and there were 4 LE's scheduled the next day for Bristol, two at 9.00 and two at 14.00. Also one for Swindon at 16.00

Monday Jan 10 1966 - Black Five on Bath Road
Monday Jan 24 - Black Five on Bath Road
Monday Jan 31 48669 and 48659 on Bath Road
Wednesday Feb 9 - 48287 on Bath Road

Those were the only ones I noted, but there would have been others. Did Gloucester retain coaling facilities after closure - rather like Normanton did in West Yorkshire ?

Did you travel on the very last Midland train into Temple Meads to be steam hauled ? I have no records of any after the dates you give, but by then I very rarely went to Temple Meads during the week, only Barrow Road shed.

The last express train to have occasional steam in the September - November 1965 period was 1V93 Liverpool-Plymouth, which did not stop at Newport and a Britannia was sometimes used at this late stage.

[Robin Summerhill]

Here are some details.

Thursday December 23 44858, 92230 (Gloucester still open at this time)

On Monday December 27 I was at Gloucester and there were 4 LE's scheduled the next day for Bristol, two at 9.00 and two at 14.00. Also one for Swindon at 16.00

Monday Jan 10 1966 - Black Five on Bath Road
Monday Jan 24 - Black Five on Bath Road
Monday Jan 31 48669 and 48659 on Bath Road
Wednesday Feb 9 - 48287 on Bath Road

Those were the only ones I noted, but there would have been others. Did Gloucester retain coaling facilities after closure - rather like Normanton did in West Yorkshire ?

So that confirms we are talking about steam coming down the Midland line. I raised the point about ex-SR engines more from curiosity than any other reason, and I have/ had no doubt that steam locomotives could have been stabled at Bath Road (and indeed I saw it myself, albeit much later than the dates we are talking about).

I don't know whether coaling facilities were still avaiable at Horton Road after closure - perhaps there is someone around on the forum with knowledge of this?

What I do know, however, is that the Western Region under Gerry Fiennes at the time were very keen to see the end of steam in 1965, and the S&D replacement bus debacle was something of a thorn in their side from this point of view, as it meant that steam power lingered on until March 1966.

I shall have a dig through the railway press from the time tomorrow (its up in the attic and I'm off down the pub shortly so I'm not going up there tonight ) to see if they had anything to say about it, but my gut feelings are a) the WR wanted to see the end of steam and b) given that this was the case, I couldn't see them "encouraging" the LMR to send steam down from Brum by providing coaling facilities.

Did you travel on the very last Midland train into Temple Meads to be steam hauled ? I have no records of any after the dates you give, but by then I very rarely went to Temple Meads during the week, only Barrow Road shed.

I don't know if my example of that Black 5 rescuing a Peak on the 1635 ex-Sheffield was the very last occasion that steam worked a passenger train in from the north, but it was certainly the last time I was on a steam-hauled service.

I must admit that by 1965, with the ever increasing number of diesels in the West Country, I had begun to lose interest in Bristol as a place to record what went on (and perhaps there was a bit of "familiarity breeds contempt" in there as well!), preferring instead to go farther afield to record events elsewhere in the country - hence four trips to the Midlands and the North within the school holidays that year (and that was just those where I came back on the Midland main line)

The last express train to have occasional steam in the September - November 1965 period was 1V93 Liverpool-Plymouth, which did not stop at Newport and a Britannia was sometimes used at this late stage.

I have virtually no knowledge of steam working on the the North & West line because I rarely saw it - the only occasion that I can remember seeing steam at all must have been late in 1963/ early 1964 when the 0800 departure from Bristol used to pick up a Cardiff portion at Pontypool Road, and that came in behind a Castle. The Warship that had been our motive power from Bristol then took the combined train on to Shrewsbury (which was as far as I was going that day).

In later years (1966 to 1968) I often went to the north west using the 0015 departure from BTM to Manchester on Saturday morning, returning on the balancing overnight train on Saturday night. Prior to September 1966, my preferred return train was the 2222 York (0009 ex-Sheffield Victoria) via the GC, arriving in Bristol at 0745 on Sunday morning, but now I've drifted so remarkably off topic that I must stop before tales of Berkeley, Longhope, Wiveliscombe and Weymouth Quay get into this post as well!

[Robin Summerhill]

As promised, IÆve been up the attic

Here is what the railway press had to say about steam working onto the Western region in general at the turn of the year 1965/66. Of course, just because the railway press reported it doesnÆt necessarily mean to say that that is what happened

As well as possibly answering some of the question posed by Patrick and myself, this lot may also be of interest to younger readers who werenÆt about at the time, as it gives a general flavour of the everyday story of the transition from steam to diesel in the mid-1960s. For this reason I have gone a little bit beyond simply quoting events on the ex-MR main line into Bristol.

When (if???!) you read all this, please remember that these were pre-computer days when reports in the railway press were often a couple of months old before they got onto the news stands. Everything below comes from Modern Railways, January to May 1966

JANUARY 1966
To mark the withdrawal of regular steam working within and into the Western Region, a special train left Paddington at 9.18 on November 27 for Swindon and Bristol Temple Meads; the route thence was via the ex-MR route to Gloucester Eastgate and to Cheltenham St James; return to Paddington was via Gloucester (ex-GWR) and Swindon. The train was the last steam-hauled excursion from Paddington, where regular steam working ceased some months ago. The last active Castle no. 7029 headed the train from Paddington to Temple Meads (reversal) where the engine was serviced, and from Gloucester to Swindon. Motive power from Gloucester to Cheltenham and back was a ôWesternö diesel hydraulic. From Swindon to Paddington two English Electric type 3s hauled the train.
Despite its official closure at the end of October for allocated steam power, Southall shed still services a large number of steam locomotives most of which arrive on Birmingham line freights. Stanier 2-8-0s and various standard classes are most prominent and few GW locomotives are now in evidence.

As the WR has intimated to the LMR that steam servicing facilities will no longer be available in the WR after January 3, Birmingham û London freights will have to be rapidly dieselised, although some workings will undoubtedly be transferred to the LMR for electric haulage south of Rugby.

LLanelly MPD closed officially on October 3 and its locomotives were condemned except for two 0-6-0PTs nos. 3654 and 9609, which are employed at Swansea High Street as station pilot and for steam heating duties. As there are no water columns available the engines have to take water from a ground standpipe and a hose connection. The closure of Llanelly thus removes the last steam servicing point in South Wales and brings to an end all steam workings west of Gloucester with the exception of the Swansea pilot.

Steam power continued to be employed on a number of Midland line freights between Birmingham and Bristol. From 15 November the remaining steam duties were to be handed over to diesel traction

FEBRUARY 1966
The WRÆs intention to abolish steam traction within the region by the beginning of the year was thwarted by the postponement of the closure of the Somerset & Dorset line which continues to be steam worked. Elsewhere in the region, and particularly in the London area, it was not clear as this issue closed for press whether steam locomotives had in practice given way to diesel traction, although by the end of December reports showed that workings by English Electric type 4s displaced from the Western Lines services by electric traction on Birmingham area û London freights were on the increase.

Steam power also continued until the New Year on the Poole û York and ôPines Expressö services south of Oxford, with SR pacifics prominent. During November and December the northbound Poole û York train was also steam hauled north of Oxford, usually by an ex-GWR 4-6-0; the steam locomotive presumably worked as far as Banbury where a change to diesel traction was made. Oxford itself continued to see a considerable variety and quantity of steam power until the end of the year; on December 22, for example, no fewer than 50 locomotives were in steam at Oxford shed, ranging from Grange and Hall 4-6-0s to 2-10-0s, WD 2-8-0s, class B1 no. 61121 and Stanier class 5 4-6-0s and class 8 2-8-0s.

On November 27 Swindon-built type 1 diesel hydraulic D9521 was employed on passenger duty when it replaced a failed steam locomotive on the 1700 Gloucester û Cheltenham. On December 6 the last active Castle no. 7029 was on the same train. 7029 had not been expected to return to Gloucester following its trip on the last steam run from Paddington on November 27, but in practice it was at work almost every day during the first two weeks of December (on December 11 it was on Sapperton banking duty).

MARCH 1966
Steam power has not quite disappeared from the WR other than on the S&D line, for the 1008 York û Poole and the 1025 Poole û York trains remain steam worked over the WR. The trains are now worked between Poole and Banbury on alternate days by a Bulleid pacific and a Banbury class 5. The alteration of the locomotive changing point from Oxford to Banbury means that the WR is not involved in servicing the locomotives or in crew arrangements.

Two other LMR steam workings continue to penetrate the WRÆs London division; one is a class 9 2-10-0 on the 0900 Banbury û High Wycombe freight and corresponding return train. Here too the WR is not responsible for servicing or for the crew. Two steam locomotives reached Paddington as steam-heating pilots on January 22.

The other principal area where visiting steam locomotives regularly penetrated the WR, Gloucester and Bristol (which at the end of last year were still receiving steam powered from the LMR via the ex-MR line) has seen a considerable reduction in such turns, but steam has not been entirely eliminated. All WR steam locomotives in the area are now out of service but Gloucester Horton Road shed, although without any steam duties of its own, can still provide coal and servicing facilities for the isolated visits by LMR steam locomotives.

Before the WR steam ban became effective, the last active Castle 7029 worked the 1700 Gloucester û Cheltenham on January 1. An unusual visitor to Gloucester on the same day was B1 no. 61058, although details of its workings to and from Gloucester have not been reported.

APRIL 1966
The official end of steam power on the WR has not yet brought an end to visits by steam locomotives from other regions; indeed, isolated workings have been reported from places as far afield as South Wales, Bristol and London. The essential feature of the workings, however, is that the WR generally does not have sufficient coal and water for the return trip to the LMR or SR, although there are exceptions. Stanier class 5 4-6-0s have been employed occasionally as steam heating pilots on a number of Birmingham line services.

In the Bristol area, as in London, steam power is still active; indeed there appear to be one or two regular duties, one of which brings one of the S&D Stanier 2-8-0s on a Bath Green Park duty to Bristol East Depot, and an ôas requiredö duty which brings an SR pacific to Bristol with an oil tank train from Poole to the Midlands. The locomotive returns light to the SR at about 0600.

Other SR locomotives are used to tow condemned locomotives for South Wales scrapyards as far as Bristol, and Stanier class 5 4-6-0s still make spasmodic appearances on Midland line freights. Servicing facilities are not provided for steam locomotives but, in an emergency, locomotives can obtain water after a fashion at Bristol Bath Road depot. South Wales too continues to see isolated steam workings. On February 2 B1 no. 61173 worked through to Severn Tunnel Junction; after turning the engine returned light to Gloucester.

MAY 1966
Steam power is now virtually confined to transit workings between the LMR and SR. Steam working on freight over the Midland line between Birmingham and Gloucester virtually came to an end in the middle of March.

[trafalgar45682]

Looking through some magazines from the time, I've found a few more interesting sightings.

Feb 1966 RO
The 06.10 Derby-Taunton train arrived at Gloucester Eastgate with an unidentified Class 5 and it worked through to Bristol on 30th December.

If true, that would be the final Midland express passenger working with steam.

Railway Magazine June 1966
Class 8F 48056 ran as a light engine from Temple Meads to Avonmouth on March 16. 45 mins later another steam locomotive was noted running in the same direction

Railway Observer September 1966
On 16 July 44780 hauled the 08.20 Wolverhampton-Bristol as far as Gloucester South Junction, returning to the Midlands with the 10.00 Plymouth-Wolverhampton from Gloucester South Junction.

[Robin Summerhill]

The Railway Magazine entry in June 1966 regarding an 8F plus another steam locomtive more or less ties in with the Modern Railways statement of steam "virtually coming to an end in the middle of March"

It might be just Patrick and myself but I find all this particularly interesting because, as I said earlier, I had begun to lose interest in the Bristol area by the back end of 1965, and unfortunately my school runs post July 1963 didn't take me anywhere near a railway to observe anything on a daily basis.

That said, from July 1964 onwards I spent a good deal of time on the top deck of the 145 bus crossing Bath Road bridge, and perhaps I ought to have been more observant regarding what was lurking around at Bath Road

PS - earlier post will be edited for typos shortly

[BristleGWR]

Here are a few photo's from Barrow Rd, I'm not sure of the date when they were taken.

[Robin Summerhill]

I've never seen an M7 on Barrow Road before I did see a class Z 0-8-0 (30952) in the Fishponds banker siding but I never took a photograph of it. I did get one of it when it moved on to Ebbw Junction in March 1965 but its so awful its not worth posting!

30133 was withdrawn from Salisbury in March 1964 and, according to britishsteam.com, was scrapped at Cashmores Newport in November 1965. So that probably dates the photograph somwhere between the two.

Edited to add - although 92209 was not allocated to Barrow Road until a few weeks before closure, it could easily have worked into Bristol from one of its former sheds (Southall, Cardiff East Dock and Severn Tunnel Junction) so I'm not sure its appearance is necessarily of any help to date the photos.

[trafalgar45682]

These are really significant photographs.

30133 was stabled at Barrow Road for the last three days of the shed, Thursday November 18-Saturday November 20, 1965.

The withdrawn Pannier Tanks 3696, 4630 and 9790 were all on shed as well, in the former carriage sidings.

I think it may well be the last day, November 20.

At 9.00 48266 left the sidings towing four engines northwards.

At 11.00 92209 left with the remaining 4 engines.

I would place the photos in between the two times.

When 92209 had left, the shed was empty, until 9680, 92209 and 48751 returned to the shed in the afternoon and evening.

A memorable set of photos reflecting the sombre situation on that last day.

Thanks for posting them

[Robin Summerhill]

30133 was stabled at Barrow Road for the last three days of the shed, Thursday November 18-Saturday November 20, 1965.
The withdrawn Pannier Tanks 3696, 4630 and 9790 were all on shed as well, in the former carriage sidings.

I think it may well be the last day, November 20.

This frightens me

I was at Barrow Road on 20th November 1965. I have some poor quality photographs to prove it - 82001 passing on the 1212 to Bath Green Park, and two views of an empty depot - one from the rear close to the wall we used to go over as kids, and one from the steps leading down to the shed from Barrow road.

Can I remember that M7 being there? Can I hell !!!!!

Should I have remembered that M7 being there? Of course I should !!!!!

I can time my visit by the passage of that train. Please, Patrick, tell me that the M7 had gone by mid-morning and was in that rake that left at 0900 !!!

(Does anybody else get this problem? You see somebody you haven't seen for 30+ years, and you recall things from the "old days" that they don't, and vice versa? Happens to me all the time! )

[trafalgar45682]

Apologies for not replying sooner, but I have just got back from holiday.

I got to Barrow Road at about 8.45 on November 20, 1965.

I took the photo of 48266 leaving the sidings towing four engines at 9.00, the first of which was a Hall.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolste ... 5157165429

The photos posted by BristleGWR contain only 92009, 30133, 9790, 4630 and 3696. If the four tender engines had still been in the sidings, a photo would probably have been taken. I assume, therefore, that the 9.00 departure for Gloucester contained the four tender engines, 5932, 3863, 3836 and 6965.

I didn't stay for the 11.00 departure which was 92009 with the three pannier tanks and the M7.

My friend who called at the shed at around dinner time said it was empty.

My notes show that 82001 was on the 10.50 arrival from Bath, returning at 12.12. I travelled by train to Gloucester that afternoon to see 4079 on a special and, if my memory is correct, 48751 was under the coaling plant as my train went by.

I think all of that agrees with what you remember of that last day.

It would be interesting to see your photos of the empty shed, if you still have them.

Patrick

[Robin Summerhill]

It would be interesting to see your photos of the empty shed, if you still have them. Patrick

PM off list, with the three lousy photos also copied to Pete to see if he can (or wants to!) do something with them for the Archive