In this age of Private Finance, I believe the only way we are ever going to see the re-opening of the Bristol-Portishead line is to form a private company, acquire the asset and do it ourselves.
Politicians have failed; Network Rail has failed; Bristol Port Company has failed; First Group have failed.
Discuss.
Shall we be the first "railway barons of Bristol" to buy our under-appreciated asset and make it happen?
Shares will be on sale soon!
Bristol to Portishead ...
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jolly47roger
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Robin Summerhill
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Jules - isn't there potentially a bit of "wheel reinvention" proposed here?
http://www.portisheadrailwaygroup.org/
http://www.portisheadrailwaygroup.org/
Well, much as I support PRG, they have been relying on the existing incumbents as in Network Rail, the NS council, FGW etc. It hasn't exactly got them anywhere (other than on various future GRIP investment plans for years hence), despite all their years of campaigning.
Maybe what it will take is for someone to come in with outside money, as that's what's lacking ... and that was the angle I was posturing ...
Out here in the good 'ole USA, we have plenty of what are known as "Short Line Operators" - who lease or buy the bits of trackage the likes of Union/Southern Pacific or BNSF don't want - and operate them as feeder services. It is a big - and profitable - (and rather noisy! LOL) business. A business that is always looking to expand
Bristol - Portishead is also wide open for a private operator under NR Open Access - i.e. it would bring brand new business to the railway and not "pinch it" from an existing franchisee.
Just a few thoughts ... I'm a great believer in "If you want something done - do it yourself" - and I think that ideology has been largely lost in the UK, where everyone relies on politicians or big corporates to "do it for them" for things like this.
It just doesn't happen, as we have seen so often in Bristol over the last 50 years or so - despite all the huff and puff from politicians and endless "artists impressions" and grand announcements from the Evening Pest.
Remember ATA?
But maybe if some outsider turned up with several millions of úúúús, that would concentrate a few minds!
Maybe what it will take is for someone to come in with outside money, as that's what's lacking ... and that was the angle I was posturing ...
Out here in the good 'ole USA, we have plenty of what are known as "Short Line Operators" - who lease or buy the bits of trackage the likes of Union/Southern Pacific or BNSF don't want - and operate them as feeder services. It is a big - and profitable - (and rather noisy! LOL) business. A business that is always looking to expand
Bristol - Portishead is also wide open for a private operator under NR Open Access - i.e. it would bring brand new business to the railway and not "pinch it" from an existing franchisee.
Just a few thoughts ... I'm a great believer in "If you want something done - do it yourself" - and I think that ideology has been largely lost in the UK, where everyone relies on politicians or big corporates to "do it for them" for things like this.
It just doesn't happen, as we have seen so often in Bristol over the last 50 years or so - despite all the huff and puff from politicians and endless "artists impressions" and grand announcements from the Evening Pest.
Remember ATA?
But maybe if some outsider turned up with several millions of úúúús, that would concentrate a few minds!
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Robin Summerhill
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OK, nobody else is bothering to comment, so I'll bite 
There is a major difference in philosopy between the UK and the States. In the USA, they understand perhaps better than most of us in the UK that private enterprise gets those things done that are worth doing. In the UK, many people grumble between themselves down the pub (or of course over the internet these days
) that a shadowy and elusive "they" should be "doing something about it" (whatever it is that needs something doing about).
I find it particularly telling, to quote Jules, that "Politicians have failed; Network Rail has failed; Bristol Port Company has failed; First Group have failed."
Now just why might this be? Could it be that a financial case cannot be made to stack up? Because let us make no mistake, if the likes of First Group thought that they could make any money out of reopening the Portishead branch there would be passenger trains already rattling up and down there as I type this. They might be able to make some money out of it if somebody was prepared to subsidise all or part of it, or if somebody else paid the infrastructure costs, but as a purely commercial transaction? They have probably already concluded it would be financial suicide.
Let us look at some "facts." If we believe the media, we are told that many people purchased properties in the expanding Portishead because they were told that the railway was going to reopen. Personally, I don't now how firm any plans were when this story got about, but there is an old saying "don't count your chickens before they are hatched."
I too have seen the TV documentaries showing the woman stuck in a jam approaching the M5 at Gordano for the best part of an hour in the peak, complaining about the situation and imploring that etheral "they" to "do something about it" and reopen the railway line. What is less clear is whether she would actually use it after it was opened. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of people sitting in those jams want the railway reopened, not because they want to use it, but they want everybody else to use it thereby freeing up the road for them to drive to their destination more quickly.
I explored on another thread just recently the fact that a railway is only of use to you if there is a station at either end of your journey. So, if you want to go from Portishead to Ashton, Parson Street, Bedminster or Temple Meads then it may be of some worth to you. If you live in Portishead and work in Avonmouth or Cribbs Causeway it it no good at all (you could ride a push bike between Portishead and Avonmouth via the footway/ cycle track on the M5 bridge and get there much faster than if you got a train to TM and came back out again). Similarly, if your final destination in Bristol was further than walking distance from any station (say Brislington or Kingswood or Fishponds or Clifton or most of Filton, to pick but a few examples), you wouldn't use the train. You would be betting on others using it so that your car journey was faster. And they might not use it - in fact, its more likely they're betting on you using it so the jam at Portbury is smaller
I suspect that organisations like First Group have done their homework on this and have concluded that it is a lost cause. By all means, Jules, issue a prospectus, but I'm not sure that you are going to find the backers you think are out there
Edited for typos
There is a major difference in philosopy between the UK and the States. In the USA, they understand perhaps better than most of us in the UK that private enterprise gets those things done that are worth doing. In the UK, many people grumble between themselves down the pub (or of course over the internet these days
) that a shadowy and elusive "they" should be "doing something about it" (whatever it is that needs something doing about).I find it particularly telling, to quote Jules, that "Politicians have failed; Network Rail has failed; Bristol Port Company has failed; First Group have failed."
Now just why might this be? Could it be that a financial case cannot be made to stack up? Because let us make no mistake, if the likes of First Group thought that they could make any money out of reopening the Portishead branch there would be passenger trains already rattling up and down there as I type this. They might be able to make some money out of it if somebody was prepared to subsidise all or part of it, or if somebody else paid the infrastructure costs, but as a purely commercial transaction? They have probably already concluded it would be financial suicide.
Let us look at some "facts." If we believe the media, we are told that many people purchased properties in the expanding Portishead because they were told that the railway was going to reopen. Personally, I don't now how firm any plans were when this story got about, but there is an old saying "don't count your chickens before they are hatched."
I too have seen the TV documentaries showing the woman stuck in a jam approaching the M5 at Gordano for the best part of an hour in the peak, complaining about the situation and imploring that etheral "they" to "do something about it" and reopen the railway line. What is less clear is whether she would actually use it after it was opened. I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of people sitting in those jams want the railway reopened, not because they want to use it, but they want everybody else to use it thereby freeing up the road for them to drive to their destination more quickly.
I explored on another thread just recently the fact that a railway is only of use to you if there is a station at either end of your journey. So, if you want to go from Portishead to Ashton, Parson Street, Bedminster or Temple Meads then it may be of some worth to you. If you live in Portishead and work in Avonmouth or Cribbs Causeway it it no good at all (you could ride a push bike between Portishead and Avonmouth via the footway/ cycle track on the M5 bridge and get there much faster than if you got a train to TM and came back out again). Similarly, if your final destination in Bristol was further than walking distance from any station (say Brislington or Kingswood or Fishponds or Clifton or most of Filton, to pick but a few examples), you wouldn't use the train. You would be betting on others using it so that your car journey was faster. And they might not use it - in fact, its more likely they're betting on you using it so the jam at Portbury is smaller
I suspect that organisations like First Group have done their homework on this and have concluded that it is a lost cause. By all means, Jules, issue a prospectus, but I'm not sure that you are going to find the backers you think are out there
Edited for typos
I suspect that commuter services are intrinsically unprofitable, no matter how well used they are in the peaks. I use the Severn Beach line daily and the trains are packed at rush hours, but the service still needs a subsidy.
Portishead does seems especially poorly served by public transport for a town of its size. Not only does it not have a station: I think I'm right in saying that it has no regular bus service that connects it with a main-line station, so for most practical purposes it is cut off from the national rail system.
My gut feeling is that a Portishead service would be comparable to the Stirling-Alloa line which reopened a couple of years ago and immediately attracted more passengers than were forecast. As well as local commuting there would be travellers to onward destinations such as Bath, Cardiff, Swindon Gloucester and Paddington.
Certainly on the train I catch from Redland at 06:29 nearly all the passengers are buying tickets to these destinations rather than Temple Meads.
But useful as it might be, I do not think there is the remotest chance that this service would make a profit Reopening would depend on the political decision that the benefits would justify the granting of a subsidy.
Portishead does seems especially poorly served by public transport for a town of its size. Not only does it not have a station: I think I'm right in saying that it has no regular bus service that connects it with a main-line station, so for most practical purposes it is cut off from the national rail system.
My gut feeling is that a Portishead service would be comparable to the Stirling-Alloa line which reopened a couple of years ago and immediately attracted more passengers than were forecast. As well as local commuting there would be travellers to onward destinations such as Bath, Cardiff, Swindon Gloucester and Paddington.
Certainly on the train I catch from Redland at 06:29 nearly all the passengers are buying tickets to these destinations rather than Temple Meads.
But useful as it might be, I do not think there is the remotest chance that this service would make a profit Reopening would depend on the political decision that the benefits would justify the granting of a subsidy.
Andy Kirkham
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BristleGWR
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carpetcone
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I would suggest that the Portishead to Bristol line will never, ever make a profit or even cover its total costs.
It would only work as part of a proper integrated transport scheme, the likes I doubt we will ever see.
If the planners had not carried on building houses in the locality then the problem would not have got as bad as it can be.
By the way, the lady driver mentioned earlier actually moved to Bristol from what I remember.
Roadworks are currently in progress at junction 19 of the M5 to ease the traffic flow onto the M5 northbound.
The A369 should have been dual carriageway from the M5 all the way into Portishead, there is plenty of room.
And again, if the re-opening of the Portishead line had been tied in with the Portbury docks line then things might have turned out differently.
Is there the timing capability to actually run a passenger service between the freight? as I recall the Port Company or railway companies, had some concerns about this before.
Residents of Portishead can always catch the Wessex Connect 660 coastrider service to Yatton if they insist on using public transport to catch a train
It would only work as part of a proper integrated transport scheme, the likes I doubt we will ever see.
If the planners had not carried on building houses in the locality then the problem would not have got as bad as it can be.
By the way, the lady driver mentioned earlier actually moved to Bristol from what I remember.
Roadworks are currently in progress at junction 19 of the M5 to ease the traffic flow onto the M5 northbound.
The A369 should have been dual carriageway from the M5 all the way into Portishead, there is plenty of room.
And again, if the re-opening of the Portishead line had been tied in with the Portbury docks line then things might have turned out differently.
Is there the timing capability to actually run a passenger service between the freight? as I recall the Port Company or railway companies, had some concerns about this before.
Residents of Portishead can always catch the Wessex Connect 660 coastrider service to Yatton if they insist on using public transport to catch a train
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Robin Summerhill
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I suppose the problem would be that the branch is currently worked on the "one engine in steam" principle (Does the modern railway still use this term?nickt wrote:Just how busy is the Portbury line, cant imagine it has a constant fleet of trains that would make it impractical to interleave a passenger train periodicaly.
), so once you've got something down there, nothing else can use the line.This can of course be dealt with by reinstating passing loops and improved signalling, but that increases the infrastructure costs
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stumpytrain
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Traffic on the Portbury branch varies depending on the demand for coal, cheapest price etc. Somtimes there can be one "on the block" all the time with trains waiting at Portbury / Ashton far a path along the single line. Sometimes it can be weeks between coal trains. The cars are more consistanct, they runs pretty much every weekday.nickt wrote:Just how busy is the Portbury line, cant imagine it has a constant fleet of trains that would make it impractical to interleave a passenger train periodicaly.
The line to Portbury is signalling by no signalman token, controlled by Bristol Panel. There's no signalling restriction to how many trains you can have at Portbury. The only limit is the infrastructure down there, quite often we have three trains at Portbury, the car train and two coal trains.Robin Summerhill wrote:I suppose the problem would be that the branch is currently worked on the "one engine in steam" principle (Does the modern railway still use this term?
The current signalling proposal for the reinstatement of the Portishead branch is to close Ashton Crossing (I believe the road would be rerouted off the A370 in the park and ride area) and extend the double track as far as Clifton Bride No.1 Tunnel. The single line, signalled under track circuit block regulations would extend as far as Pill, where the former down loop would continue to Postishead and the former up loop would head off towards Portbury. This would make the single line a quick section providing more than enough capacity for passenger and freight workings.Robin Summerhill wrote:This can of course be dealt with by reinstating passing loops and improved signalling, but that increases the infrastructure costs
Cheers,
Alex
Just another thought. Parson street junction must be quite busy especialy with the new depot as well. wouldnt this extra traffic cuase a bit of a head ache. perhaps the down line that is I think terminated at bedminster station should be re instated to allow freight to wait for road without causing blockage.
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stumpytrain
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There have been discussions about reinstating the down relief from Bristol to West Depot, I doubt that will happen anytime soon.nickt wrote:Just another thought. Parson street junction must be quite busy especialy with the new depot as well. wouldnt this extra traffic cuase a bit of a head ache. perhaps the down line that is I think terminated at bedminster station should be re instated to allow freight to wait for road without causing blockage.
This is planned to assist trains heading towards Yatton, improving regulating and pathing options for XC and stopping services. Freight paths aren't really a problem, they could wait at Bristol Temple Meads.
Alex
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stantheman
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Could they not convert UP relief to bi-directional and the Portishead trains work to/from Platform 2?stumpytrain wrote:There have been discussions about reinstating the down relief from Bristol to West Depot, I doubt that will happen anytime soon.nickt wrote:Just another thought. Parson street junction must be quite busy especialy with the new depot as well. wouldnt this extra traffic cuase a bit of a head ache. perhaps the down line that is I think terminated at bedminster station should be re instated to allow freight to wait for road without causing blockage.
This is planned to assist trains heading towards Yatton, improving regulating and pathing options for XC and stopping services. Freight paths aren't really a problem, they could wait at Bristol Temple Meads.
Alex
I feel a little guilty for kicking off this thread and then disappearing - Apologies! The pressures of work 
I will reply soon as I think the thread has raised some very interesting points of view.
Meanwhile, I just spotted this:
I would love to be there to hear this talk, but sadly 5,000 miles is rather too far to travel! If anyone from BRA is a little nearer and would like to go along, I'm sure we'd all appreciate any feedback ...
I did used to be Newsletter Editor for FOSBR, but the current distance means I'm not a regular Bristol Rail User except when I am home, so I had to give it up for lack of knowing what was going on locally.
I will reply soon as I think the thread has raised some very interesting points of view.
Meanwhile, I just spotted this:
David will be appearing at the quarterly meeting of http://fosbr.org.uk (Friends of Suburban Bristol Railways) to be held Friday 8th April 6pm 'til 9pm û Halo Cafe, Gloucester Rd (200m north of The Arches), nr Montpelier Station. (I'll post it in News too).The Ebbw Valley Railway project involved the establishment of an new hourly direct passenger service from Ebbw Vale to Cardiff , requiring the complete upgrading of 18 miles of former freight railway including 3 miles of new passing loop and construction of six new stations. Unusually the project was procured and delivered by the local authorities prior to being handed back to Network Rail. Since opening in 2008 usage as surpassed initial forecasts with around 600,000 trips per annum.
David McCallum was the project manager for this project from the first feasibility studies in 1998, through to its opening in 2008 and lives in Bristol . His presentation will cover the development and implementation of the project, some of the challenges encountered and developments since opening.
I would love to be there to hear this talk, but sadly 5,000 miles is rather too far to travel! If anyone from BRA is a little nearer and would like to go along, I'm sure we'd all appreciate any feedback ...
I did used to be Newsletter Editor for FOSBR, but the current distance means I'm not a regular Bristol Rail User except when I am home, so I had to give it up for lack of knowing what was going on locally.