Transition from steam to diesel in the Bristol area

[Robin Summerhill]

The recent correspondence we have had on here about the end of steam in Bristol (on the 43924 thread amongst others) got me thinking abou the other end of the transition - how it all started.

These thoughts really came from me reading an article in the Railway Magazine from last year about the post-war acceleration of "The Bristolian" back to pre-war timings. At one point the article mentioned the "official" end of steam on the Bristol - Paddington service as being 12th June 1959.

If we go back to the mid-1950s then Bristol, in common with the majority of BR at that time, would have been all-steam (with the exception of "Kerosene Castle" and her sister) But after that?:-

When did diesel shunters start appearing?

When did the Warships first arrive for crew training, and was the end of steam on the Londons a case of "Sunday all steam, Monday all diesel" or was there a transition period, and how did it work in practice?

Where were the diesels stabled when Bath Road was still a steam depot?

When did the Peaks start appearing on the Midland line?

Did the Fell diesel 10800 ever get to Bristol (my 1959 WTT gives it clearance to use the Gloucester to Bristol line, but whether it actually did use it is another matter!

When did the Hymeks and the North British type 2s turn up, and what duties were they first used on, and what did they progress to?

All of these questions are, for me at least, rhetorical because by the time I got involved (September 1962) there was a mixture of both steam and diesel in the area. I am hoping that some of the "older hands" around here might be able to shed some light on them!

[oldchapie]

As regards to the 7000 were concerned the first was put on a freight down at Avonmouth (royal edward yard for driver training ) and there was a bit of greed because some of the senior drivers wanted the turn put in their link where as when the turn was steam it was junior work so the type of traction was to decide what links the work went up to it caused a lot of friction but did not last long

[Robin Summerhill]

As regards to the 7000 were concerned the first was put on a freight down at Avonmouth (royal edward yard for driver training ) and there was a bit of greed because some of the senior drivers wanted the turn put in their link where as when the turn was steam it was junior work so the type of traction was to decide what links the work went up to it caused a lot of friction but did not last long

Now I find this sort of thing really interesting stuff

So did the senior men want to take on trip work to Royal Edward Yard just because there were diesels on the job, or did they want the Hymeks for their more "senior" turns?

[oldchapie]

Yes the answer was they wanted to have the diesel no matter what job it went on.I will give you another case The old first train in the morning to Weymouth was a mileledge turn and as such it was a senior link turn.How ever when the turn became non mileledge it became a junior link turn.That the was system so the type of traction and money was was guiding rule .great!

[Robin Summerhill]

Yes the answer was they wanted to have the diesel no matter what job it went on.I will give you another case The old first train in the morning to Weymouth was a mileledge turn and as such it was a senior link turn.How ever when the turn became non mileledge it became a junior link turn.That the was system so the type of traction and money was was guiding rule .great!

There were some funny arguments put forward by some people as I recall.

One day I was standing in the Enginemen's lobby at Bath Road when driver Pat Hogan was berating the LDC man at the time (Len somebody? Can't remember his name). The argument was that Canton men had recently been given turns to Taunton, and Pat didn't like it, thinking that Bristol men should be on the job. His argument was "these Canton men are working past our depot"

The LDC man pointed out that, if he took that argument to the management, Bristol men would be going no farther than Gloucester, Swindon, Westbury, Taunton and Severn Tunnel Junction in future

[oldchapie]

When I was on the ldc with my colleagues we never turned any work away and the work was shared out with a slight bias to to the top 2 links with the mileage being shared with all 13 links So apart from the regular groaners it was a good depot to work at as for me nothig could have been better for well over 45 years pat was a bit of a stirer but a good man to work with. oh happy days

[Robin Summerhill]

Yes the answer was they wanted to have the diesel no matter what job it went on.

Presumably this wasn't so much of an issue when the Warships were introduced?

I'm only guessing, but I imagine that as these were intended for the express passenger services, then it would generally be the higher links that got trained on them?

[Robin Summerhill]

When I was on the ldc with my colleagues ...

The LDC man I was thinking of (in the early 70s) - was his name Goulding or similar?

[oldchapie]

It was Jim Goulding he was the secretary Vic Comer ,Tom Jones and myself oldchapie It was a good depot and in the main was trouble free.
When the new diesels came on line the older drivers was a bit wary of them but the best yet to come were the HST"s as they came into service every link shared in the work.

[Robin Summerhill]

It was Jim Goulding he was the secretary Vic Comer ,Tom Jones and myself oldchapie

Now you mention the name I remember that of Vic Comer but I can't put a face to it after all these years.

After the reorganisation of April 1974 I was identified with a job on the workshop side so I lost much of my contact with the running side. I was more used to dealing with union reps on that side, mainly Harry Wilkinson!

Did Jim Goulding actually do much footplate work when he was LDC secretary? I seem to remember him always being around the lobby "out of uniform" so to speak. There were a few other people you rarely saw looking like they may go and drive something - I've been trying to remember all day the name of the driver who was involved with the Council more than he was with railway work and its just come to me - Bill Graves

[oldchapie]

I saw Bill Graves not so long ago although i did not always concur with Bill at least he was a better counselor than the rubbish they have in Bristol,to-day
there were two other on the Bristol city council they were Jack Woods who represented the Ashton area.and Bill Bagnall a Barrow rd driver.that's the difference with to-day with genuine people who believed in what they were doing for the benefit of the city.Now all they seem fit for is bendy buses and selling up the green and open spaces.

[trafalgar45682]

I started regularly going to Temple Meads from March 1961, but have only few records from that year.

With regard to Paddington trains, the first to be dieselised was the Bristolian in both directions in June 1959. There are photo's of both down and up Bristolians with 7024 Powis Castle and 5085 Evesham Abbey respectively on June 12 1959 in Colin Maggs' book "Railcentres - Bristol". Some Paddington trains were still steam worked in 1961, which I remember seeing at Temple Meads. By 1962 I think they had all been dieselised. That is with the exception of Summer Saturdays. Most London trains were steam worked on Summer Saturdays in 1962 and two, 1B08 and 1B10 (9.45 and 10.45 ex-Paddington) were steam worked on Summer Saturdays in 1963. On the very last Summer Saturday of that year, September 7, 1B08 had 7036 Taunton Castle and 1B10 had 7032 Denbigh Castle. Both worked through to Weston and returned to Bristol on local trains in the evening. There were, of course, other London trains which were steam worked due to diesel failures and unavailability.

[Robin Summerhill]

I started regularly going to Temple Meads from March 1961, but have only few records from that year.

I started going in September 1962 and my notes got thrown out by my parents in 1970 when they wanted the bedroom back However, from memory:

I recall a portion of the 1015 Paddington that regularly arrived from the west behind steam in 1962/3, usually as I recall a County or a Castle. The London trains were almost exclusively diesel hauled by then, usually by "Warships" - during this time seeing a "Western" in TM was more unusual.

Steam was more prevalent on the Midland line of course, but also on the Salisburys. Whilst I recall coming out of Cardiff General station on evening in the winter of 1963/64 behind steam, I don't remember now whether the train was destined for Temple Meads or whether it was a Cardiff - Salisbury train which would have had its Bristol station stop at Stapleton Road in those days, then continued via Dr Days to North Somerset Junction.

There was, however, a Hockey Special that ran every year to (presumably) a cup final or similar that was steam hauled, Hall 4920 being a regular performer. Being at that "difficult age" there were many pf us that were not quite sure which was the most interesting - the train itself or its passenger loading of primarily young girls of about our age

[trafalgar45682]

Robin Summerhill wrote :

I recall a portion of the 1015 Paddington that regularly arrived from the west behind steam in 1962/3, usually as I recall a County or a Castle. The London trains were almost exclusively diesel hauled by then, usually by "Warships" - during this time seeing a "Western" in TM was more unusual.

This was 1A30 8.53 from Taunton due in Bristol at 10.02. The six or so coaches were then joined to the four that started from Bristol with a Warship. The last time I noted this with steam was on Saturday March 21, 1964 when 6913 Levens Hall was the engine.

4920 Dumbleton Hall was often on this train, at the time I think it was a Taunton engine.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolste ... 5395704513


http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolste ... 5395704513

[Robin Summerhill]

4920 Dumbleton Hall was often on this train, at the time I think it was a Taunton engine.

4920 was certainly found kicking around the Bristol area rather a lot in those days, but my database shows that it was allocated to Newton Abbott in 1960 and stayed there until September 1962, when it moved to Laira, then moving on to St Phillips Marsh for a month or so before closure, and then ending its BR days at Barrow Road.

The odd thing is, I had a gut feeling that it was based at Taunton as well, so for the last hour I've been trawling through the supporting records that sit behind my BR Steam Allocations database (and its made me late for the pub tonight ). This tells me that Laira ostensibly kept two Halls (4920 and 4978) right up until its closure to steam in May 1964, although what they would have used them for at so late a stage is something of a mystery - theoretically they would have had enough diesel hydraulics around to cover any failures.

My data is supported by the Ian Allan Locoshed Books from January 1963 onwards showing both of these Halls allocated to Laira until that depot closed to steam.

Perhaps 4920 was on loan to Taunton, or perhaps both Patrick and I are suffering from long term memory loss? Perhaps somebody like oldchappie can add something to this conundrum?