Pary people mover.

[nickt]

In the Norton Radstock and district journal last week. Local Lib Dem councilors went on fact finding mission to investigate the Pary people carrier. They appeared to conclude that said vehicle would be useful on disused trackbeds radstock to frome and maybe a branch to Swindon etc and possibly a way of creating link from Bristol to Radstock along the trackbed which exists most of the way. An ideal pilot route would be from Farrington Gurney to Radstock. They were impressed with vehicle wich seemed reasonably cheap to run.

I wonder when some one will think about using on Bristol to Bath cycle path route, a lot safer than cycling along that route and getting $%^& kicked out of you. I have (before anyone thinks otherwise ) cycled this route several times but feel decidedly nervous in the cut outside if Bristol.

[Robin Summerhill]

Sometimes I despair when politicians say things more to get their names in the paper than have any real plan to do anything.

The Parry People Carrier is essentially an updated version of the railbus of the 1950s. It still needs track and all the other infrastructure, and to relay a line from Faringdon Gurney to Radstock would require a lot more potential traffic (ie revenue) than this thing is likely to carry. Whilst much (but not all) of the route has not been redeveloped, have a look on Google Earth to see how much land would have to be bought back from local farmers before you even got to the stage of reinstating drains, ballast, trackwork, signalling (perhaps) and stations, even if with only rudimentary platforms.

Its only "credential" of any merit over and above a standard DMU is a lower level of emissions. That in itself does not make reopening railway lines viable - it just makes those who believe in man-made global warming feel a little bit better in themselves. Like Lib Dem councillors.

And clearly nobody has thought of the objections that Sustrans would raise if there is the slightest thought of removing their perceived God-given right to cycle tracks over former railway formations, the ructions they kick up every time somebody suggests reusing Bristol to Mangotsfield for the purpose for which it was originally intended being a good example. Both the line west of Radstock to Midsomer Norton, and south-East towards Mells Road, are now cycle tracks.

I'm sorry to be such a damp squib, but this one has really been thought up by someone who exists where people who live in Cloud Cuckoo Land go to get away from it all.

[Hobbler]

I wasnt paying attention but there was something on the news that one of the political parties had come up with an idea to provide a fund for reopening old railways which would be financed by a cut in the road building budget.

Perhaps they could get additional funding by stopping all funding of Sustrans - an organisation in my opinion that should be disbanded with immediate effect . Not only do they think they should have every disuded rail line for their use they are also gradually taking over canal towpaths as well so you can no longer enjoy a peacefull walk by the cut without the risk of being run over by maurding packs of lycra clad speeding bikes

[chippy]

Hobbler...This should fluff up a few feather with the cycling fans,I'm not a cyclist by the way...just a pedestrian.

[Robin Summerhill]

I wasnt paying attention but there was something on the news that one of the political parties had come up with an idea to provide a fund for reopening old railways which would be financed by a cut in the road building budget.

It was the lib dems "today's big idea." Apparently they are talking about taking ú3bn from the roads budget and spending it on "thousands of miles" of reopened railways.

Somebody on radio 4 this morning (not a politician) looked at the figures. Apparently new railways cost in the region of ú9 million per mile - stations and trains to use on these railways are extra, so all you need is a calculator and the back of a fag packet to see that ú3bn isn't going to go very far, and certainly not "thousands of miles." Apparently one of the routes they have identified is the Waverly route Carlisle to Edinburgh - I would contend that they would need a good deal more than ú3bn just to do that.

I'm sorry that I always sound like such a damp squib when these things come up, but in order to make a new railway worthwhile then it has to answer a business case. Do the figures stack up? Is the likely traffic potential sufficient to give a payback on the investment? There is no point in opening a railway line that then never at least breaks even and has to be subsidised by someone until hell freezes over. Like, for example, the case of Melksham - the town was ostensibly clamouring for a reopened railway station but then, when they finally got one, nobody to speak of used it so it ended up with a minimum service.

I am getting increasingly wary of the lib dems because of the number of ill-thought-out electioneering that is going on. I got a leaflet through the door a few days ago telling me that the lib dems were going to "campaign for more trains to Swindon and Bristol, and more buses to south Wiltshire so that old people don't get stuck at home"

Excuse me? There's already a 30 minute interval service on the GWR main line - how many more do they want? And as regards buses, the county of Wiltshire is currently choc-a-bloc with buses running three quarters empty and most of the passengers they ARE attracting are pensioners with their bus passes.

Not so very long ago I was travelling from Devizes to Swindon and got caught behind a service bus from Beckhampton to Wroughton. There were three people on that bus, and it neither picked up nor set down all the way (which was why I was stuck behind it!). It would have been cheaper and more environmentally friendly to have put those three people in a taxi.

And if that is what is happening with the bus service then I doubt a case could be made for providing a rail service.

Give me strength!!!!!

[Robin Summerhill]

Perhaps they could get additional funding by stopping all funding of Sustrans - an organisation in my opinion that should be disbanded with immediate effect . Not only do they think they should have every disused rail line for their use they are also gradually taking over canal towpaths as well so you can no longer enjoy a peacefull walk by the cut without the risk of being run over by maurding packs of lycra clad speeding bikes

I also happen to be a cyclist and I make frequent use of former railway formations and canal tow paths. You will not, however, find me in luminous lycra - jeans when its cold and ordinary shorts when its warm, and at nearly 58 I ain't gonna do much speeding

The problem is not with cyclists per se, its the militant cyclists, and I feel that they make up a significant proportion of Sustrans activists. If you'll pardon the pun, they do need to be told where to get off from time to time, especially when they object to the use of railway formations (such as Bristol to Mangotsfield) being re-used for the purpose for which it was originally intended.

[jules]

Apparently new railways cost in the region of ú9 million per mile

Well, we run a re-opened passenger railway from Bishops Lydeard to Minehead - I just wish the WSR could get this mystical ú9 million per mile!

That would be a nice little ú234 million for our coffers!

[Robin Summerhill]

Apparently new railways cost in the region of ú9 million per mile

Well, we run a re-opened passenger railway from Bishops Lydeard to Minehead - I just wish the WSR could get this mystical ú9 million per mile!

That would be a nice little ú234 million for our coffers!

Nail. Head. Direct hit.

So at that sort of price, and if I'm doing my sums correctly, ú3bn would buy the lib dems about 140 miles of railway?

I hear the thud of a case gently rested

[jolly47roger]

This from VIA Rail Canada's site : One mile of main line track on the CN Kingston Subdivision requires 240 tons of rails, six tons of spikes, 63 tons of tie plates and 2,730 tons of ballast. Building a single-track section without bridges or diverging track switches costs about $3 million per mile.

Canada's cost will be of the same order as the UK and these are Canadian dollars. So ú2million per mile. Where does the rest of the ú9million go??

[Robin Summerhill]

This from VIA Rail Canada's site : One mile of main line track on the CN Kingston Subdivision requires 240 tons of rails, six tons of spikes, 63 tons of tie plates and 2,730 tons of ballast. Building a single-track section without bridges or diverging track switches costs about $3 million per mile.

Canada's cost will be of the same order as the UK and these are Canadian dollars. So ú2million per mile. Where does the rest of the ú9million go??

But jules says even more as far as the WSR is concerned - in fact a lot more!

It looks to me like the Canadian figures just cover the cost of the simple relaying of single line track (ie "without bridges or diverging track switches"). Add a bit (or a lot) in for clearing or rebuilding drainage after umpteen years of disuse, embankment and cutting maintenance, signalling etc etc, and the figures will soon mount up.

[jolly47roger]

The Canadian figures were in the context of widening an existing track from 2 lines to 3.

[jules]

But jules says even more as far as the WSR is concerned - in fact a lot more!

Well, I was actually joking. If only the WSR could get anything like that per mile! But, WSR did re-open a closed line and did it largely through volunteer effort and donated / scrounged materials (most of the track was fairly rapidly knackered post re-opening).

Main thing I think is that the politcos were talking about "re-opening" rather than building new. So, I would have though possibly twice the Canadian figure, but then out here (I live in the USA right now) if you want to build a railroad, you just go right ahead and do it.

We have a major freight line down the middle of Main Street here And there is *very little* illegal or careless parking

I often think - a bunch of volunteers would get Bristol - Portishead open a damned sight quicker than all the politicians, local councils and consultants put together. Now there's a thought!! It's already council owned ......

[Robin Summerhill]

We have a major freight line down the middle of Main Street here And there is *very little* illegal or careless parking

Well off topic but worth a look. The railway related clues start at 1m 45secs in, and the action at 2 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2TC3iMwIPU

[madhattie]

Well off topic but worth a look. The railway related clues start at 1m 45secs in, and the action at 2 minutes

Quite possibly -the- most off topic post for many, many months!

[madhattie]

It's interesting to see those figures for costing railway infrastructure. In almost every photo I take there are entire lengths of discarded CWR lying besides the track. The cost must be astronomical.