The Bristol Railway Archive

the green mile wrote: I can think of a fitters mate who was an ex Marsh man but no name springs to mind even though I can see his face under his cloth cap.

A fitters mate who wore a cloth cap?

Well that cuts it down to a couple of dozen

the green mile wrote: Electricians came in two batches. Those who were there for the long haul and those who came and went due to the state of the jobs market outside.

This happens in many large industries where the choice is regular work + lower wages versus irregular work + high wages.

Since the early 1980s I have been involved with local councils and housing associations and, especially since 2004 when I joined the ranks of housing consultants, I come across this time and time again.

A few years ago, when Heathrow Terminal 5 was being built, councils and housing associations working around London couldn't get electricians for love or money.

Conversely, I was talking to a Works Manager of a Housing Association in the Birmingham area the other week who told me that, during the recession in the building industry, he'd had electricians, plumbers and carpenters applying for jobs, the calibre and quaility of which he'd never seen in 30 years in the job.

(Not much to do with Bath Road but I just thought of it as I read your post!)

Fitters mates and cloth caps? I know this was more the era of the stereotype than today, but....would you expect a HST driver booking off to emerge from the locker room as a Hell's Angel and go home on a Harley? Thought not!

Two more Bath Road inmates:-

When Pat Hogan finished up as messenger, he was replaced by John Steer. John was a bachelor and probably could have claimed the accolade as the world's oldest virgin. Everything to do with the opposite sex was greeted with an embarrassed, nervous grin and raised eyebrows. I think he was the inspiration for Python's "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" sketch. He left at the age of 58 to join the Civil Service in Edinburgh. Every year he would send me a Christmas card with the words "I'm fine, how are you?" Never more, never less. Then about five years ago, the cards stopped and there the trail goes cold.

John was succeeded by Harry Bobbet who was Jan Powell's uncle. A much more down to earth character.

Anyway, cup of tea then onto the strike.....

the green mile wrote: Fitters mates and cloth caps? I know this was more the era of the stereotype than today, but....would you expect a HST driver booking off to emerge from the locker room as a Hell's Angel and go home on a Harley? Thought not!

I can't say that I would expect any of the top link men in my days in Bath Road to dress like a Hells Angel when in civvies, but things might have moved on a bit since then.

You know, I even saw a WOMAN driving a LT District Line train the other week. What is the world coming to???!!!!

the green mile wrote: Anyway, cup of tea then onto the strike.....

This should be interesting

The maintenance staff strike in the late 70's was a very contrived affair. The real issues behind it are a distant memory to me, even if I understood them in the first place. The local NUR branches were under pressure to deliver a walkout and at Bath Road, the vehicle used was to do with animal skin apparel - the humble donkey jacket.

A small number of jackets were held in the stores for use by staff on callouts in bad weather. The union's challenge was that such items should not be shared for health reasons so everyone should have their own personal issue. Management's view was that this was unnecessary as it was worn over overalls and not next to the skin. This all came to a head one late turn when the staff occupied the daily shed. Very clever stategically because that was the only place that locos could be fuelled.

All staff involved were summarily suspended pending disciplinary hearing and over the next few days, myself and a colleague were given the task of delivering a personal letter to this effect to each individual at their home address. This was no mean feat. We had the use of an old Bedford HA van and bearing in mind that some staff lived up to 25 miles away, schoolboy maths tells me that we covered an area of almost 2000 square miles.

As I was the junior hand, my mate sat in the van with the engine running while I knocked on doors. It soon became apparent that our staff records were hopelessly out of date in many cases. Reactions from the recipients varied greatly. On a council estate in Bath, one individual sent me packing threatening to set his dog on me. I was thereafter known as "The Postman". However, when I knocked on John Corkhill's door in Weston-s-Mare, I was greeted by comments like "what a dreadful affair this was" and "did I think it would last long". In fact John's wife invited me in for a cup of tea, which I gladly accepted leaving my mate outside in the cold.

There are at least 5 women drivers at Bristol and they are equally up to the task as any of their male counterparts.

Reminds me of the time when the first woman came to work in the Control (as a clerk not a controller). We all said "what about all the bad language and swearing?" "You will all have to get used to it" was the reply.

You know, I even saw a WOMAN driving a LT District Line train the other week. What is the world coming to???!!!! Mr. Green

My last United flight from Newark to Chicago was flown by a lady Captain and a Lady First Officer.

Bloody good job they don't have to reverse those things into the parking spaces!

The maintenance staff strike in the late 70's was a very contrived affair.

Oh how I miss the good old industrial unrest of my youth. When I went on work experience at school to a printing works in Lodge Causeway, they were on strike. So, my work experience consisted of standing on the picket line for three days. My careers officer was livid ... whatever.

Was listening to Michael Portillo tonight on BBC R4 - "Capitalism on Trial" and there was a very succint comment about Capitalism reaching a bit of a nadir in the 1970s, before the likes of Maggie started to reverse the "decline". Its an interesting programme in two parts - I'd recommend a listen.

Personally (and I know tugboat would agree), we need a bit more social and union activity again nowadays. People have lost their independent spirit. It might have been disruptive, it might have seemed petty at times, but some of the ASLEF and RMT leaders of the day must be turning in their graves to listen to the crap we have to put up with today about the all powerful "market", "UK plc" (I *loathe* that cliche!!) and the pathetic excuses we have for politicians today.

If there was a new general strike, I'd be the first to join the picket line in good old ASLEF / RMT tradition. And I even work for myself!!

Robin Summerhill wrote: You know, I even saw a WOMAN driving a LT District Line train the other week. What is the world coming to???!!!!

the green mile wrote: There are at least 5 women drivers at Bristol and they are equally up to the task as any of their male counterparts

Perhaps you missed my pathetic attempt at humour. That's what the bold type and the were meant to convey



Just a little more sexist humour before I turn in for the night:

"They say women are the weaker sex. You try getting your half of the duvet off one at half past four in the morning"

I shall now go and try

No, Robin I fully understood where you were coming from. But really, they are very fine chaps and get no special treatment. I just make it clear to them that when they are going out to mobilise a train, they shouldn't spend too much time adjusting the make-up mirror.

Oh no, that's only on buses and cars isn't it. Trains aren't generally allowed to reverse so don't have mirrors. The driver has to hang out of the side window to see the shunter calling her on which doesn't do the perm a great deal of good if it's done at speed or while going through the wash plant.

Pilots? When did we last have one of those on an airliner. They are 'Systems Managers' in modern speak. George Orwell would be turning in his grave! (I assume he has passed on - not sure?)

Jules , I fail to understand why your careers officer would be so upset by your experience. Surely industrial unrest was part and parcel of work in those days and you were experiencing it 'as it was'. Maybe one day of production would have been a better balance. Remember how long it took to complete the Avon bridge on the M5. I don't think they managed a full week's work during the whole project.

I once sat in on a Shop Committee Meeting in Doncaster Works and that very entertaining. Management and shop stewards 20 a side across a long highly polished table with true Yorkshire grit and determination, but it was well mannered. Each side respected the other. No prizes for guessing which side of the table the flat caps sat there.

Personally, now I am older and wiser, I would never support management stepping in to try and keep things going during a dispute. If there's a genuine issue, get it sorted. Otherwise it drags on, customers drift away and when it does get sorted, the resentment and acrimony lingers on for ages. And people end up with nicknames like 'The Postman' of course.

the green mile wrote: Personally, now I am older and wiser, I would never support management stepping in to try and keep things going during a dispute. If there's a genuine issue, get it sorted.

Couldn't agree more. I think that one of the problems in the "old days" was that the class divisions that had become ingrained on both sides often got in the way of reasonable discussion. Just to pull this conversation back to Bath Road for a moment, I recall an occasion when Basil Edwards had had a "falling out" with an electrician (can't remember who unfortunately) and Basil wanted him up on a charge of "insubordination." It was pointed out to Basil politely that he was no longer in the forces

Memory of names is very shaky this morning, but there was also a top link passenger guard who had comiitted some minor misdemeanour or other and had been hauled up in front of Ken Watkins, who started raising his voice to him. The guard walked out of the office, came back about 10 seconds later and said: "Sorry, I went out to see who you were shouting at" I wonder who won that round?

All that said, it does of course depend which side is being the more unreasonable. When you spoke in last night's post of "the strike" I was thinking of the one that happened after the 50s came to Bristol, but of course you were talking about a later one that happened after I'd left 82A. The "50s" strike was caused by both sides taking extreme positions:

Staff -"You've given us crap to maintain and we're losing financially as a result"
Management - "You're skilled men - get and do the job properly that we're paying you for"

A compromise was of course eventually reached. After a 3-week strike. A bit more common sense and willingness to negotiate on both sides should have avoided strike action completely.

the green mile wrote: Otherwise it drags on, customers drift away

Abso-bloody-lutely. The only time when a strike can really "work" from a staff side point of view is when they have a virtual monopoly on the supply of whatever product they produce. ASLEF shot itself, and the railway industry, in the foot in the 1955 strike because railways were no longer in the position of power in the national transport system that they once were. Traffic left the railway during the strike and was never regained.

Similarly, the miners thought they were more powerful than they actually were when they took on the Thatcher government in 1984. When you can import coal cheaper than you can dig it out of the ground in this country, the unions were up for a hiding that they eventually took. And in the meantime, the men involved had no pay for a year.

To bring things up to date, the BA strikes of last year were doomed to failure from the outset for exactly the same reasons. BA does not have anything near a monopoly on the UK airline industry - there are plenty of other carriers at Heathrow that are more than happy to take BA's business if they can't provide their service

Couldn't agree more with your last comment. I remember thinking at the time what sort of cloud-cuckoo land do the BA unions live in?

I didn't get involved with the strike over the 50's. I was otherwise engaged elsewhere at the time but exactly where escapes me because I can't put a date on it. It was either Doncaster or Derby - both places I cherish in my memory of a long and fulfilling career (NOT!).

Staff -"You've given us crap to maintain and we're losing financially as a result"

Thank you Robin. I'd forgotten about the 50s strike. As a dedicated Maybach maintainer, memory of this is "sweet music to my ears".

The 50s were cast offs from the MR, they were crap - and they ultimately killed the Westerns, Warships and Hymeks! Evil Empire to this very day for me ... our beloved hydraulics will never be replaced because of them.

But give Bath Road its due, once they go to grips with the unfamiliar technology, they sorted them out and turned them into half decent locos. Mostly by stripping stuff off of them as I recall ..,

Why people now pay good money to ride behind a pair of hideous, whistling Class 20s I will never understand! No other choice left I suppose.

At risk of going off the original thread, I agree with you Jules. 82A was a good hydraulic depot but the lads could turn their hand to anything, given the right sort of back up. Yes the 50's were crap. The electronic control systems were not particularly robust, in fact pretty primitive. That was one of the problems. There wasn't a great deal of expertise in electronics within the workforce so it was easy to point the finger in that direction when power problems occurred. But we got on top of it in the end before the allocation came down to 6 of this type and all the rest went off to Alton Towers and Disneyland (OC & LA).

Then along came the 56's, inherited from Canton - oh dear! A product of very dubious quality. Having completed the first main exam (56032 I think), Terry insisted we give it the full body treatment before release. I watched her go out of Bristol on a late afternoon Freightliner from West Depot and she looked a treat, gleaming in the sunlight. Any depot would have been proud to present a loco into traffic to that standard.

I was on the staff bus in the early 90's 91 to 93 I think every Thursday you had to do the chip run for the LDC. Pranged that Sherpa van more times then I would like to admit to. Most of what was referred to as The Baby link have ended up working for DB Schenker.
I worked on the bus along with Steve Robins , Pete Wade ( No longer with us) and Frank Padmore. Bert Sams was the storeman on the train cre side of things.
Roger (no men) Ford , Keith (Bird seed ) millett Phill ( judge) Du camp Mr Joshi was his name something like nasir ?? Colin Oakley now train running controller for Notwork Rail in Swindon and Steve radio Dent . Can still hear him now calling 14 to 1 , 14 to 1. Guard Gulley is on his way up to the station for the Hereford. Said in his northen tones.
Many of the characters of Bath Rd still bring a smile to our faces and raise a laugh or three when we get time to go over the old days.