The Bristol Railway Archive

The mystery deepens, there was another box on the upside opposite the siding and line into shortwood brickworks.

Therefore the boxes going up from mangotsfield are as follows,

Mangotsfield North Junction, on downside

Shortwood brickworks, on upside

Parkfield colliery south(brandy bottom pit), on down side

Parkfield colliery north, south end of westerleigh sidings, on down side

Mid point of westerleigh sidings, up side

North end of westerleigh sidings/ junction for ram hill line, up side.

6 boxes in approx 2.5 miles

horace wrote:1950's map of Tewell hill area, all evidence of siding now gone apart from the curved boundary at that location.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mao_zhou/8476343309/

Very nice Horace .

horace wrote:
Therefore the boxes going up from mangotsfield are as follows,

Mangotsfield North Junction, on downside

Shortwood brickworks, on upside

After 'replaying' my childhood journeys from Charfield to Temple Meads in my mind I am pretty certain that the Shortwood box I remember in the 60's WAS on the up side.

Having re examined my 1946 map, the shortwood brickworks box is shown on the up side, I did not spot it earlier as it is obscured by geological info, my map is a geological map. That would fit as by then some of the ones i listed from the 1888 maps had gone.
Got there in the end, confirming your memory, but have certainly dug out a lot of info about that line on the way.

Horace,

I found the photostream of the Shortwood area very interesting. I can remember a brickworks chimney there. Your maps are fascinating. By any chance would you have them covering the line as far as Charfield? If so, there are a couple of things I would very much appreciate clarifying.

Unfortunately my mapping runs out at Westerleigh junction. If you are after info though try the OS old maps site.

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/index.html

you can work your way up the line using their old maps, its a bit of a pain doing that way and you cant down load them, but you do get to see mapping from all eras.

Horace, I didn't even realise I could access old OS maps online! I've spent an interesting hour looking at maps from 1887 onwards showing Charfield railway station. I suppose this is a bit off-topic but it does have to do with location of signal-boxes!
From at least as far back as 1928 (year of the Charfield rail disaster) until closure in 1969 (??) Charfield's signal-box was at the rear of the down platform. My grandfather worked it from 1930 - 1953 but he never suggested that it had not always been in that location.
Recently, I found and purchased on the internet a photo of the station taken I would imagine around 1900 - 1910 which shows the box was beyond the north end of the up platform, right next to the inner home signal. Sure enough, on one of the large scale maps from around that time a structure appears in that location although it is not denoted as 'S.B.' There is no sign of a structure at the later position of the signal-box on the down platform. Then going back to the 1880's, the signal box is clearly shown adjacent to the goods-shed on the DOWN side. I can't imagine the signal-man had a very clear view of trains approaching on the down line with the overbridge restricting his view, so perhaps that was the reason for re-locating it to the up side. Yet I had always assumed the signal-box had always been where I had known it!

I spent many an hour wandering around about charfield station when i lived there. Many a sleepless night was made interesting by the throb of an engine waiting in the passing loop. Mind you although i am now about 50 miles from there i still live with a busy railway less than 25yds from my house. I love the noise of the freight trains trundling through all night.

horace wrote:The shortwood sidings i am referring to.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzlebor ... 716802684/

This must have been taken from the road that ran alongside the pub that was adjacent to the bridge.

Thats a very interesting photo, that I have seen a later photo, where this signal has been re-located north of the road bridge and by a later lms/br signal tubular type.

Now my british railways layout plans by John Swift has the shortwood(brickworks )sidings shown as being 1496 yds to the north of Mang' Nth box, so nearly a mile, and westerleigh south or parkfield coll' box, being another 1606yds further north again. My Historical survey of the Midland in Gloscestershire Lists shortwood sidings and box as being closed 22nd Feb 1965. And the Sidings at North junction being refered to as north junction Carriage sidings(the up side ones). Icidentally the Pines line was officially recorded as the North Curve, between Mang' Soth and North Boxes.

The carriage sidings at north junction were always full of carriages at the times i visited there. It always struck me as a strange place to keep carriages, is there any indication of why they were kept there.

I note we have another anomaly with names, the north curve as it was called, was straight!!

Now to change the subject a bit, maps of various dates show differing layouts for the Mangotsfield goods yard. There was rather a large change between the 1951 map and the 1957 map. All of the rail lines which I presume were used for ash dumping went. Does anyone have any knowledge as to why it ceased at this date, as obviously the ash still had to go somewhere, so where did it go?

buxton4472 wrote:Horace, I didn't even realise I could access old OS maps online! I've spent an interesting hour looking at maps from 1887 onwards showing Charfield railway station. I suppose this is a bit off-topic but it does have to do with location of signal-boxes!
From at least as far back as 1928 (year of the Charfield rail disaster) until closure in 1969 (??) Charfield's signal-box was at the rear of the down platform. My grandfather worked it from 1930 - 1953 but he never suggested that it had not always been in that location.
Recently, I found and purchased on the internet a photo of the station taken I would imagine around 1900 - 1910 which shows the box was beyond the north end of the up platform, right next to the inner home signal. Sure enough, on one of the large scale maps from around that time a structure appears in that location although it is not denoted as 'S.B.' There is no sign of a structure at the later position of the signal-box on the down platform. Then going back to the 1880's, the signal box is clearly shown adjacent to the goods-shed on the DOWN side. I can't imagine the signal-man had a very clear view of trains approaching on the down line with the overbridge restricting his view, so perhaps that was the reason for re-locating it to the up side. Yet I had always assumed the signal-box had always been where I had known it!

Try and find yourself a copy of an historical record of the Midland in Gloucestershire, there loads of info on all the stations nearby and interestingly shows the old Box at charfield being tall enough to see over the bridge, and with a walkway from the road to the box, and may even have been replaced again by another box shorter before finally being placed on the down Platform.

tonyperks wrote:

buxton4472 wrote:Horace, I didn't even realise I could access old OS maps online! I've spent an interesting hour looking at maps from 1887 onwards showing Charfield railway station. I suppose this is a bit off-topic but it does have to do with location of signal-boxes!
From at least as far back as 1928 (year of the Charfield rail disaster) until closure in 1969 (??) Charfield's signal-box was at the rear of the down platform. My grandfather worked it from 1930 - 1953 but he never suggested that it had not always been in that location.
Recently, I found and purchased on the internet a photo of the station taken I would imagine around 1900 - 1910 which shows the box was beyond the north end of the up platform, right next to the inner home signal. Sure enough, on one of the large scale maps from around that time a structure appears in that location although it is not denoted as 'S.B.' There is no sign of a structure at the later position of the signal-box on the down platform. Then going back to the 1880's, the signal box is clearly shown adjacent to the goods-shed on the DOWN side. I can't imagine the signal-man had a very clear view of trains approaching on the down line with the overbridge restricting his view, so perhaps that was the reason for re-locating it to the up side. Yet I had always assumed the signal-box had always been where I had known it!

Try and find yourself a copy of an historical record of the Midland in Gloucestershire, there loads of info on all the stations nearby and interestingly shows the old Box at charfield being tall enough to see over the bridge, and with a walkway from the road to the box, and may even have been replaced again by another box shorter before finally being placed on the down Platform.

Also in the book is a picture from a distance of the (back to Topic) Box and brickworks at Shortwood.

tonyperks wrote: Try and find yourself a copy of an historical record of the Midland in Gloucestershire

Funny you should suggest that - I ordered a second-hand copy last night! Looking forward to receiving and reading it. The 'replacement' up-side box was a much squatter affair. The original must have swayed in the wind being so tall. My grandfather would have cursed all those steps![/img][/url]

Morning everyone,

I've been following this thread with some interest .
Using the third edition of "Track Layout Diagrams of the Great Western Railway and B.R. Western Region (Section 20 - Swindon & South Gloucestershire)" the following information can be gleaned:-

Mangotsfield North Jct Carriage Sidings were taken out of use 12/9/65.
The Signal Box was closed 4/1/70.
Shortwood Signal Box was situated on the UP side, at 123m57c, and closed 22/2/65 (when the last of the sidings and points were taken out of use). The original box there was opened by 1872. The new box opened on 9.11.1890.

The Private Siding Agreement details for Shortwood are shown thus:-

PSA 19.8.1865 Isaac White
PSA 28.3.1872 Shortwood Brick & Tile Co.
1903 Cattybrook Brick Co.
PSAT (Terminated) 31.12.1964.

I hope that this is of interest.

Very Best Wishes,
Bob.

bristolian wrote: Shortwood Signal Box was situated on the UP side, at 123m57c, and closed 22/2/65 (when the last of the sidings and points were taken out of use)

In the 1960/61 Bristol District freight WTT, Shortwood Sidings is shown in the relevant table in the down direction but not in the up. Presumably only down trains called there for traffic purposes (not even a crossover perhaps?). There is a trip shown (9F33 - 11:15 a.m. Westerleigh Sdgs - Mangotsfield N Jcn) which had a departure time of 11:23 from Shortwood (the timings are a bit optimistic if any shunting was required there, I think!). Perhaps it was an almost cast-iron certainty that the train would NOT have to call for traffic purposes and that 11:23 was really a passing time. But it was nevertheless the only train with a timing shown for Shortwood.