Matt Thomas wrote:A long shot - is there any information out there about the Mangotsfield South Junction signal box?
I understand that before its closure in the thirties, after which the junction points were power-controlled (I am not sure if this was from North Junction box or the station) the mail train used to be turned anti-clockwise, not clockwise. It would therefore have been "right line" all the way round the triangle, as there was before the war a crossover at South Junction. But my early maps don't show the crossover.
I have often wondered about the exact location of the crossover and signal box, and whether the latter was timber, or masonry.
I am sure there was no trace of any foundations by the fifties, when I knew the location very well.
Incidentally, about fifty years ago there was an article in Trains Illustrated, by one of the Allens I think, in which it was suggested that the Clifton bay might once have been a through road. Presumably this is another red herring. Of course, the "pigeon train" road (can anyone remember the platform numbers?) could not be accessed directly from the up line (perhaps reflecting the Midland's dislike of facing points).
Matt
The Old Maps website can answer the geographical aspects of both your questions.
Go to
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html and enter Mangotsfield in the search box (unfortunately it will take you to Hillhouse Estate but that's close enough!). You can drag the map south east, then click on it somewhere near the eastern end of Junction Way in the new development, which will put you more or less at the midpoint of the chord between the station and South Junction.
You can then select historic maps of the area from the menu on the right hand side, and the 1:2500 scale plans also show you the individual tracks. If your eyesight is as bad as mine is getting you might want to use "enhanced zoom" in full screen (rightmost icon on the enhanced zoom menu):
The 1882 plan shows the position of the box but no crossover (at least that I can see)
The 1903 plan shows a trailing crossover which, to take the mail ECS working as an example (which I must admit I'd completely forgotten about until you mentioned it
) would allow a train to travel from the down line from Mangotsfied North onto the up line on the chord into Mangotsfield station. There does not appear to be any provision for a train to cross from the down line on the chord to the up line to Mangotsfield North (although I am quite happy to be corrected on that but I can't see it on the plan).
The 1954 plan shows the same thing, also showing the position of the former box but makes no mention of it (the letters S.B would normally appear on plans of this scale to indicate a signal box)
So none of these maps appear to support the suggestion that the mail could have been turned anti clockwise, unless it ran wrong road from Mangotsfield South to North, or used the crossing to the west of the station and ran wrong road to South
Also, none of these maps shows the Clifton bay as ever being a through road, and indeed the topography would count against it anyway because the extent of railway owned land beyond the foot crossing would seem to preclude it.
Finally, IIRC platforms were numbered north to south but the loop under the cliff did not have a numbered platform, so platform 1 was the up main.
