The Bristol Railway Archive

Running the thing towards Temple Meads and attempting to turn it on one of the triangles at Dr Days or North Somerset, or running it around the avoiding line, would have involved a lot more propelling or running round, and would get in the way of a lot more trains.

From my charter operating days, we would go a hundred miles to "stay out of the way" of everything else. As an ECS working, this would have been much the same.

Once you get a train rolling, it's easy - not like driving a car from TM to Mangotsfield just to point it in the opposite direction

Though I must admit, an awful lot of fuel must have been used over the years running up Fishponds Bank with all those ECS and light engine moves. I guess fuel consumption didn't really enter operation's scheme of things back then - "Somebody else" paid for it ...

Fair comment regarding reasons for not using the Dr Days/N Som Jcn triangle. The Newcastle mail would not have been 'vacated' until the morning timetable would have been looming large, seriously restricting paths.

I am still interested to know whether the train was propelled (reversed) between Mangotsfield N and S Jcns, and whether a banker was required to Fishponds (since the photo depicts a Fowler 4F on a very long train!). If a banker was attached to the train and ran to Mangotsfield, it would then be the train engine for the manouevre down the east side of the triangle I guess making the whole process easier operationally. Can anyone remember the exact procedure?

All the photos I have seen and the film show the train top and tailed usually a 4F front up the bank and something like a jinty on the rear.

There is colour video footage of the turning of the Mail in

Railways around Bristol (Terry Nicholls) with a 4F and Standard 3 tank

Steam around Bristol (1st take DVD Presentation) with 73015

From March 1, 1965 the Barrow Road ecs pilots were discontinued (75022 and 73015 being the last two on Saturday Feb 27). I presume the carriage sidings at Barrow Road closed from that date and the stock was then stabled at Malago, which would involve running via North Somerset Junction and SPM avoiding line to get the stock facing the right way.

As for the 3M93 5.00 ecs Saltley, it was a turn on the Barrow Road Roster Board, but I never saw an engine allocated to it in 1964.

tonyperks wrote:All the photos I have seen and the film show the train top and tailed usually a 4F front up the bank and something like a jinty on the rear.

That explains the relatively smart turn-round times given in the WTT for the Mangotsfield triangle, then. In retrospect, I wish I 'd known about this as a kid - would have loved to have seen that coming up to Fishponds - but then again Coffeepots were ten a penny on the ex-Midland, and I was always after seeing something a bit more exotic.

Though I must admit, an awful lot of fuel must have been used over the years running up Fishponds Bank with all those ECS and light engine moves.

I take it from that comment that the Mangotsfield triangle was also used for turning locos having run LE from Bristol as an alternative to using the Barrow Rd turntable?

Now totally off-topic but here goes anyway with a further interesting observation from the 1959/60 Bristol WTT. On a summer Saturday it was always normal practice to route the Wolverhampton LL/B'ham SH/Moor St - West Country expresses via Yate South Jcn/Westerleigh West/Stapleton Rd in both directions. The summer Saturday expresses to the West Country from the NER/LMR went without exception via Mangotsfield but there were a fair few returning northbound which took the ex-GW route and had to take a 'conductor' as far as Stoke Gifford where he was dropped off. Was this simply to ease the volume of heavy trains having to cope with Fishponds bank which would require banking assistance and the additional problem of interlacing them with the Bath GP traffic?

Sorry to pose a lot of seemingly stupid questions but stuck out at Charfield as I was as a boy gave me very little insight into ops on the southern extremity of the ex-Midland main line!

I remember seeing the mail ecs on numerous occasions during the late 50's/early 60's, usually with a Barrow Rd 4F at the head. It used to pass Staple Hill around 09.45am and go to Mangotsfield North where it was propelled to Mangotsfield South from whence it headed for Bristol St. Phillips via Mangotsfield station.

Mangotsfield triangle was used for turning locos which had hauled freight trains to Westerleigh yard and returned North without requiring servicing at Barrow Rd. These locos could be anything from a 3F to a 9F. The triangle was also used to turn engines when the turntable at either Bath Green Park or Barrow Road was out of action. For example in late February 62 the southbound 'Devonian' engine on 3 or 4 evenings was turned via the triangle.
Regarding the northbound LMR trains travelling via Stoke Gifford and regaining the old Midland line Yate, these were mainly summer Saturday workings which by-passed Temple Meads and changed locos by St Phillips Marsh depot. They then traversed North Somerset Junction and regained the South Wales/Badminton route at Dr Days as there was no direct access to the Mangotsfield line at this point.

Regarding the northbound LMR trains travelling via Stoke Gifford and regaining the old Midland line Yate, these were mainly summer Saturday workings which by-passed Temple Meads and changed locos by St Phillips Marsh depot.

Ah yes, I now see the reason for the routing. Thanks for enlightening me![/quote]

Returning to the origins of this thread - Where were the carriage sidings at Yate ?

The tiny goods yard and (maybe) a couple of short sidings adjacent to the Parnalls factory would hardly have been sufficient - Unless the stock was stabled on the spur of the Thornbury branch?

There were no carriage sidings at Yate, but one of the 3 loop lines of the Thornbury branch may have been used to stable the stock, or even one of the Admiralty sidings on the up side, these were long enough certainly

one of the 3 loop lines of the Thornbury branch

From what I recall, was and still is called "Yate Middle"?

jules wrote: From what I recall, was and still is called "Yate Middle"?

But wasn't the s/box controlling the branch junction called Yate Main Line? Or did Yate Middle refer just to the sidings/loops?

Yate Middle is/was the ground frame put in on the up side to control the access to the Tytherington trains, which actually is not there any more since the junction is now controlled from bristol panel.

More info on the Sunday/Monday York-Bristol working; This also appeared in the 1961 and 1962 timetables.

Although initially shown as ECS to Yate, there is a footnote- "ECS to Westerleigh Yard". The train loco then left as L.E to Barrow Road at 4am.

The ECS was worked from Westerleigh to Saltley carriage sidings at 5am, source of motive power unknown.