South Glos Proposes Destruction of the Avon Valley Railway

[madhattie]

From the Bristol Evening Post

ALONG THE RIGHT LINES

Buses could take to old railway lines to transform public transport links between Bristol, South Gloucestershire and Bath. A new congestion-busting scheme using routes from Yate into Bristol as far as Whitchurch and to Bath via the preserved Avon Valley Railway has gained the support of transport leaders in South Gloucestershire.

The aim is to run guided buses using the former Midland Railway line that was ripped up in the 1960s, sharing the route with cyclists as it is currently used as a cycle track.

Colin Hunt, a member of the council's planning, transportation and strategic environment select committee, said: "The former railway line is an enormous asset and is a great success as a cycle route.

"However, there could be terrific scope for making even better use of it by sharing the route for rapid transport or fast bus routes."

First Group or other operators could use street cars or guided buses on the routes if the proposals are taken up and become part of the Greater Bristol Transport Plan.

South Gloucestershire is set to be the lead authority in carrying out a feasibility study with the support of Bristol, North Somerset and B &NES councils and interest shown by First Group which represents both the bus and rail arms of the transport company.

Cooperation will be essential for the success of any scheme - Bristol's supertram project, abandoned in 2004, failed after a dispute between the city council and South Gloucestershire over the site of the route's northern terminus delayed it for so long that government policy turned against tram systems and previously promised money was no longer available.

Mr Hunt, who represents South Gloucestershire's Siston ward for the Tories, said: "The former railway lines were protected for the abandoned tram scheme so there could be considerable scope for providing rapid transit routes separate from the rest of the traffic.

"I believe that the council needs to be as imaginative as possible in coming up with attractive schemes because currently there is a total failure to provide viable alternatives to the car."

Dave Redgewell, spokesman for the pressure group Transport 2000, said: "We will support this scheme. First Group and the council have been working in partnership and it would be great for the greater Bristol area.

"We believe a rapid transport scheme, using guided buses, is a part of the solution for traffic congestion for not only South Gloucestershire but the Bristol region as well. We are also pleased to see the bus will link up with the local rail network, not just the private rail link at Bitton."

Transport giant First's commercial director for bus operations in Bristol, Colin Rees, said: "We have been in discussions with South Gloucestershire Council about ways to improve public transport in the area.

"There are no specific proposals at this stage, but First has agreed to work in partnership with South Gloucestershire Council to improve public transport."

[madhattie]

Colin Hunt, who represents South Gloucestershire's Siston ward for the Tories, said: "The former railway lines were protected for the abandoned tram scheme so there could be considerable scope for providing rapid transit routes separate from the rest of the traffic.

Of course this is nonsense. The Avon Ring Road (built by South Glos Council) completely destroyed the railway route and created a hilly diversion to the cyclepath.

I wonder if Mr Hunt lives in Siston as well as representing them? Somehow, I think not...

[DAVE]

SOUNDS LIKE SOUTH GLOS COUNCIL ARE TAKING OVER FROM BRISTOL CITY COUNCIL WITH "PIE IN THE SKY" IDEAS!
LIGHT RAILWAY, TRAMS ETC ETC ALL CAME FORWARD AND NOTHING HAPPENED!
GOOD LUCK TO THE AVON VALLEY RAILWAY, LONG MAY YOU CONTINUE!
IM 100% CERTAIN THE RAILWAY AND CYCLE PATH WILL BE STILL GOING WHEN THE IDIOTIC COUNSELLERS WHO PROPOSED THE "BUS" ROUTE ARE LONG GONE!
DAVE FROM NAILSEA

[Portishead Prowler]

I was wondering hpw long it would be before someone in the authorities turned their attentions to this transport corridor....

Obviously (to my mind in any case) the answer is to give a substantial grant to the Avon Valley Railway to re-lay the track and run private commuter rail services alongside the current leisure trips - was this not one of the stated aims of the AVR at formation? Surely also, it would be very difficult to evict the railway from it's current location would it not?

[madhattie]

I was wondering hpw long it would be before someone in the authorities turned their attentions to this transport corridor....

South Glos already have plans for the northern section of the route. It's going to be more dual carriageway linking Emersons Green with the motorway. After which they'll probably spend several million of taxpayers money into a 'feasibility study'into how turn it into a busway. All these studies are nice little earners to everyone involved.

Obviously (to my mind in any case) the answer is to give a substantial grant to the Avon Valley Railway to re-lay the track and run private commuter rail services alongside the current leisure trips - was this not one of the stated aims of the AVR at formation? Surely also, it would be very difficult to evict the railway from it's current location would it not?

I'm pretty sure the AVR have just signed a 99 year lease (or some such equivalent) with South Glos, a process that was done quite specifically to protect the railway against unwelcome development.

I'm not sure that if the line was upgraded for commuter line speeds that steam engines would be allowed to travel along it without a mainline certificate.

I don't believe there's any need for a route between Mangotsfield and Bath myself. If the line was to reopen then it should be the westerly section between Temple Meads and Mangotsfield, and then north via a new station at Emersons Green to Yate with a new parkway/interchange with the M4 south of Yate. If that route was rebuilt it would serve some of the most densly populated areas of Bristol and provide an alternative route north out of Bristol during engineering work.

[madhattie]

There's a new article about this busway on the Bristol Evening Post website that is -completely- different from the first:

http://tinyurl.com/azwzt

No mention of the Bristol to Bath section.

Of course, there's no mention that the proposed Westerleigh-Bristol route is currently earmarked for a ring road between Emersons Green and the M4.

[Portishead Prowler]

I'm not sure that if the line was upgraded for commuter line speeds that steam engines would be allowed to travel along it without a mainline certificate.

I don't believe there's any need for a route between Mangotsfield and Bath myself. If the line was to reopen then it should be the westerly section between Temple Meads and Mangotsfield, and then north via a new station at Emersons Green to Yate with a new parkway/interchange with the M4 south of Yate. If that route was rebuilt it would serve some of the most densly populated areas of Bristol and provide an alternative route north out of Bristol during engineering work.

I can find out about the mainline cert thing, I have a relative in quite a senior position at NR, it's an interesting point! If it is private, does the same level of regulation apply as to mainline track, even if there is no connection to the mainline?

I agree entirely with your points re Bath and Emerson's Green. I can't believe the amount of home building going on around the Greater Bristol area with no provision whatsoever for sensible transport - my place of residence being a prime example.

[jules]

if the line was upgraded for commuter line speeds that steam engines would be allowed to travel along it

Heritage railway general speed and safety rules: locomotives (steam or diesel) 25mph. Multiple units 40mph.

Of course, all vehicles have to be inspected "fit-to-run" and there are additional speed restrictions at level crossings etc. plus issues with insurance which may also stipulate maximum speeds.

[Portishead Prowler]

Heritage railway general speed and safety rules: locomotives (steam or diesel) 25mph. Multiple units 40mph.

I would have though that 40mph was plenty fast enough for commuter trains with the short distances between stations. I don't think anyone is suggesting that using steam for commuter rail would be viable in this day and age.

I'm sure a "cheap" dmu or two could be pertained though, running costs could be kept quite low, and it could be run on bio-diesel to satisfy the green lobby.

The profits from this venture could be used to cross-subsidise the steam railway and improve rolling stock over time.

[madhattie]

I'm sure a "cheap" dmu or two could be pertained though, running costs could be kept quite low, and it could be run on bio-diesel to satisfy the green lobby.

The profits from this venture could be used to cross-subsidise the steam railway and improve rolling stock over time.

The route could never be rebuilt by anyone other than Network Rail with government funding.

For instance, where would the route run into Bristol if rebuilt by the AVR? Despite the route being earmarked for a Supertram (at one stage) and supposedly 'protected' (if you believe a thick as two spuds local councillor) the entire eastern run into Temple Meads has been lost under ever increasing industrial and housing estates. These would have to be compulsory purchased and flattened, while the Spine Road would have to be bulldozed and rebuilt a bit higher on a new bridge.

Until recently it would have been possible to rebuild the route into Avon Street, (with only two housing estates having to be bulldozed!) and by building a ramp gain access to Temple Meads. Alas, that route has been chucked away now also.

[Portishead Prowler]

If that is the case, then the plans for the guided bus route have about as much chance of getting off the ground as Concorde currently does....likewise any other transport programme earmarked for this corridor.

[Steve Huddy]

if the line was upgraded for commuter line speeds that steam engines would be allowed to travel along it

Heritage railway general speed and safety rules: locomotives (steam or diesel) 25mph. Multiple units 40mph.

Of course, all vehicles have to be inspected "fit-to-run" and there are additional speed restrictions at level crossings etc. plus issues with insurance which may also stipulate maximum speeds.

Part of the definition of a Heritage Railway is a 25 mph limit, any higher and you are into the same regulations as the big railway. It caused problems with the Swanage's idea of TOCs running their stock through to Swanage as they would have been limited to 25 - or all the track and other stock would have to have been upgraded - ultrasonic testing, TPWS, "black boxes"...

[bethanyjunction]

Don't think we need to get too hot under the collar about this. Talk is cheap. And they may not have noticed that there is already quite a good link from Bath to Bristol kindly left us by Mr. Brunel. As well as busses which actually go INTO the villages.

What "First" will look at is how many thousands of people any new link might serve. The railway originally closed because it doesn't really serve anybody at all as it runs through a handful of little out-of-the-way places.

Jules comments that steam could never run a viable transport link. This would be true, but (tongue in cheek) not long ago, probably for a dare, the LT&S to Southend used steam as a one-off and commuters were amazed that for the first time ever, the thing ran ON TIME!!

Incidentally I moored up on the stage under Riverside on the Bitton line, for a day and a night, and only saw 2 bicicles the whole time. If that is "success" then there is hope for the puffers yet.

[madhattie]

Incidentally I moored up on the stage under Riverside on the Bitton line, for a day and a night, and only saw 2 bicicles the whole time. If that is "success" then there is hope for the puffers yet.

It's definately a busy route! You should try walking along there on a weekend while pushing a pram and keeping one eye on a mad as a hatter four-year-old! The bikes wizz past at high speed every couple of seconds and the whole experience is exhausting.

I only go there on weekdays and very cold days now. It's not safe otherwise.

[John Ball]

I think the real question about bikeway conversions is what sort of use they get.

The old railway from Wenfordbridge to Dunmere then Wadebridge and Padstow in Cornwall is busy in the holiday season and weekends with cyclists. But these are generally people who have brought their bikes to the location by car (with roofracks), and although a big tourist attraction, I do not call this 'green'. Indeed the bikeway has put more traffic onto the roads.

I suspect that the Bristol - Mangotsfield - Bath route has better potential for people to commute to and from work, either by bike as at present or by train as could possibly be reinstated, rather than driving, so is an asset that can help reduce road traffic. I suspect the AVR would be glad to extend their rail service to somewhere like Fishponds, or as near as practicable to Bristol city centre. Perhaps hire out bikes from there to city centre or a connecting bus. But they'd need a subsidy, as with virtually all public transport these days. If Wessex Trains and others get subsidies to provide public services, then why not provide same to preserved railways if it would encourage them to run a useful commuter service?

John