two tunnels footpath

[Geoffers]

I'm looking forward to walking this route and hope it will be reasonably safe. I'm more concerned about "rogue" cyclists than about being mugged, I admit. Most cyclists are very good on shared paths, but I've often encountered reckless riding on the Bristol to Bath railway path, even being ridden into from behind on one occasion! Why some cyclists want to race on clearly unsuitable tracks is a mystery to me.

[chippy]

Second bridge opened today with a small opening ceremony sat16th.
...the existing bridge over mainline at bellotts road not opened yet,but it was cleaned up a bit before christmas.

[chippy]

Recent picture of devonshire tunnel...not opened yet.
Small sign tells how long it is and how long it takes to go through it on bike or walking...also lighting up times. feb 2013.

Also picture of artwork near tunnel entrance...guess 20 mm.plate steel,cut with laser guided milling machine.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/byjr/8480958937/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/byjr/8480960353/

[Robin Summerhill]

A little off topic but still (just about) relevent to the thread, the Two Tunnels Project is not the only one going on at the moment on the former S&D formation.

North Dorset Trailway have currently got the contractors on site and the Stourpaine to Blandford North section of the trackbed will be reopening shortly for walkers, cyclists and equestrians.

This will give a through cycle route (except for a short on road section through Blandford itself) from Sturminster Newton to Spetisbury.

[railwest]

One aspect of the work of possible concern is the number of stretches (as far as can be seen from nearby viewpoints) where continuous runs of high fencing are being installed immediately next to the edge of the actual tarmac path. In effect, users will be 'walled in' far more than on some other routes (eg Radstock - Mells Road), with not many obvious 'escape routes' in the event of some 'problem' occuring. Difficult to understand why this is being done.
I note in the area of the old Midford goods yard that they are using a replica of the old iron railing fence - which still exists along the old railway boundary, so why a new one? It's all shiny galvanised - I don't suppose it will get painted to blend in

[Robin Summerhill]

One aspect of the work of possible concern is the number of stretches (as far as can be seen from nearby viewpoints) where continuous runs of high fencing are being installed immediately next to the edge of the actual tarmac path. In effect, users will be 'walled in' far more than on some other routes (eg Radstock - Mells Road), with not many obvious 'escape routes' in the event of some 'problem' occuring. Difficult to understand why this is being done.

I've not been to have a look yet (I was at Devonshire tunnel entrance earlier this week and a Midford a few weeks ago) so I don't really know what's going on in between. Is it possible that this is just temporary fencing?

However, if it isn't, then I'm still not sure what your concern is. Let me give you a f'rinstance:

Between Staple Hill and Mangotsfield stations, the Bristol & Bath Railway Path has accesses at Staple Hill station and Signal Road (according to Google Earth about three-quarters of a mile - and to think could I tell the difference between the smoke deflectors of a 9F and a "Scot" at that distance 50 years ago!!!!). There is no means of access between those two points because the line is either in cutting or in tunnel, so no means of "escape." But what would you want to escape from?

Another example might be (but going way out of the area and a little off topic) the Birmingham Canal Navigation main line between Wolves and Brum, also designated as a cycle track. There are long sections of that, especially around Smethwick and Galton, where the canal runs in a deep cutting and there is no way out except for going on to the end or going back the way you came.

But leaving all those examples to one side, whenever you are on a former railway formation or a canal towpath or some other form of permissive path, the local landowners on each side don't want you or anybody else swanning over their land, and you will usually see fencing alongside it.

I think we need to be practical here, and not to dream up potential "problems" when none really exist.

Changing the subject slightly, its now looking like I will be joining the retired S&D firemen's group in Bath on the day, so I should be in the tent with them if anybody wants an impromptu Bristol Railway Archive Forum meeting

[Robin Summerhill]

A PS to my last post.

The minutes of the latest Two Tunnels Steering Group meeting are here:

http://www.twotunnels.org.uk/docs/11_ma ... _notes.pdf

The way I read it is that some people are not happy about the fencing that has been installed

Lyncombe Vale Fencing û The TTG position was reiterated that, following opening day, and as agreed with Sustrans, it wished to see a properly documented risk assessment justifying the fencing which remained in place, which spoiled this otherwise beautiful area of the path. As a start-point SF agreed to provide FT with The Council documentation on the issue.

[railwest]

Certainly the fencing at the Midford goods-yard end is permanent - as I said, they have copied the old-style railway fencing. In the Tucking Mill area it appears from a distance to be chain-link, and AIUI the same at Lyncombe Vale.

On existing parts of this route and others, there is usually quite a wide area of 'spare' land between the actual tarmac path and the railway boundary. In these cases the new fencing is right at the edge of the tarmac, so in effect you are walking/cycling along a fenced-in path no more than maybe 10'-12' wide.

If you have the misfortune to encounter a group of sppeding cyclists who insist on riding abreast, or stray livestock, or other hazards, there simply will not be the space to move to one side out of the way. And in an emergency, more difficult to climb a 6' chain-link fence than scramble over an old railway post-and-rail one.

[Robin Summerhill]

Just a last-minute reminder - the opening festival kicks off at 1100 tomorrow, Saturday 6th April, at Bloomfield Road Open Space (off Bear Flat) in Bath

[railwest]

I was there, as you know Robin

I just took the 'short walk' through Devonshire Tunnel. Main hazard - cyclists! Despite the lighting, still really quite dark and difficult to see anyone not using a torch or cycle light when coming towards you thru' the shadows.

[Robin Summerhill]

I was there, as you know Robin

I just took the 'short walk' through Devonshire Tunnel. Main hazard - cyclists! Despite the lighting, still really quite dark and difficult to see anyone not using a torch or cycle light when coming towards you thru' the shadows.

In a way I'm glad you posted that - I thought it was my failing eyesight that caused me to almost walk straight in to a stationary cyclist!!

So much for the "keep left" signs at the tunnel entrance - I was "keeping left" - this berk wasn't

It was quite an enjoyable day. I was in the tent with the retired S&D firemen. One former driver turned up, George Tucker, now well into his 90s but still quite capable of walking through Devonshire tunnel and back. Some of the younger firemen didn't manage that

[carpetcone]

Why does society pander so much towards cyclists when so many of them appear to ignore the rules and regulations?

Cycle lanes that they don't use...they prefer pavements, red lights they don't stop at, they just ride through them.

And now another "green" initiative where on the official opening some of them clearly couldn't resist the urge to act like berks....

[jules]

Why does society pander so much towards cyclists when so many of them appear to ignore the rules and regulations?

I have a theory about this - it is the physical effort that raises their adrenaline levels - pure and simple. All that exercise and adrenaline makes them think they are invincible - whereas in fact they become sub-human and ignore many of the civilized rules of society - totally selfish. Putting the unfortunate pedestrian public and themselves at considerable risk.

I for one am sick of being nearly run over when I am crossing East Street in Bedminster on the green pedestrian light pelican crossing and have to jump out of the way to avoid a speeding cyclist, totally oblivious to the safety of those crossing the road, with no intention of stopping and speeding down the inside of a waiting bus ....

Oh for a nice big stick to poke into those spoked wheels That would take the wind out of the obsessed idiots' sails ...

I am (just about) young enough to jump out of the way, but I feel very sorry for the more elderly amongst us. One day, there is unfortunately going to be a serious and tragic accident there ...

And as to how they seem to think they have the right to take over disused railways for their own exclusive use, when if they were turned back into what they were originally intended for in the first place we could ALL use them, well ... just don't get me started!

Imagine how many (diverse) people would use the Bristol to Bath railway path nowadays if it were still a railway? I raised this point at a FOSBR meeting several years ago (comparing success of the Severn beach line to a similar facility for East Bristol) and the abuse I got from the cycling fraternity (who were so say there to support rail!) had to be seen to be believed!

And all this from a cycle owner!!

[andy hole]

I have to Agree, Cyclists do tend to flout the rules quite a bit. A few years ago I walked the whole of the Bristol to Bath Midland Route (cycle path) in 4 hours and several times nearly got mowed down my cyclists. 16.5 miles in 4 hours is good going (Did stop for a cup tea and cake at Bitton station as its about the half way point)

[Robin Summerhill]

Why does society pander so much towards cyclists when so many of them appear to ignore the rules and regulations?

Cycle lanes that they don't use...they prefer pavements, red lights they don't stop at, they just ride through them.

And now another "green" initiative where on the official opening some of them clearly couldn't resist the urge to act like berks....

Why does society pander so much towards cyclists when so many of them appear to ignore the rules and regulations?

I have a theory about this à in fact they become sub-human and ignore many of the civilized rules of society - totally selfish. Putting the unfortunate pedestrian public and themselves at considerable risk.

I have to Agree, Cyclists do tend to flout the rules quite a bit.

IÆve been waiting all week for jules to post something on the ôBeechingö thread that I could disagree with, and now this thread kicks off. And all probably because I described one particular cyclist as a ôberkö

Are you sitting comfortably? Then IÆll beginà

Firstly, cards on the table. I speak as a railway enthusiast, a railway supporter, a pedestrian, a car driver, and also one of these people that are getting denigrated û yup, I am a cyclist. Not a twenty-something fitness fanatic; not a MAMIL (Middle Age Man In Lycra, in case you havenÆt come across the acronym before), but "One Old Geezer On A Push Bike" (Google that for more details ) who indulges in the odd spot of leisure cycling.

Describing all cyclists in the way the carpetcone and jules and andy do is similar to those people who say that all railway enthusiasts are sad cases who wear anoraks and stand at the end of station platforms and are in dire need of a life. I doubt that many of us would agree, but there are those out there who say such things. TheyÆre not correct, and neither are the sweeping statements made by our internet friends on here

In the same way as jules does, I have this theory. Some people want the law rigorously enforced when the law in question is one that they arenÆt likely to break, but want a more relaxed attitude taken with laws they are likely to break. There are certainly cyclists who jump red lights, but there are also car drivers who do the same. There are pedestrians who arenÆt looking where they are going and walk into the paths of cyclists, or ignore red lights on Pelican crossings. There are car drivers who speed - some of them every day of the week, and cry "foul" when they get nicked by a speed camera. I have been in pubs post-2007 when the landlord has, in some circumstances, taken no notice of the ban on smoking that now exists in such premises. Virtually every section of society ôbreaks the rulesö at some time or other û and do you know what? The world doesnÆt end.

We have to wake up to the real world. Like it or not, cycling is being encouraged at the moment by the Powers That Be as a green alternative transport option, and also as a means of improving the general health of the population. And there will be those within the cycling fraternity who break the rules, in exactly the same way as other sections of society break the rules from time to time. We just have to live with it.

Having said all that, there are points with which I agree with the criticisms. I have criticised Sustrans frequently for their attitude to reopening railway lines that have been turned into cycle tracks, and especially over the Bristol to Mangotsfield route, where any proposals to re-use it for the purpose for which it was originally built is met with their cries of ôover our collective dead bodies.ö

As many on here will already know, the railway line from Bristol to Gloucester, of which the Bristol to Mangotsfield section forms part, was converted early on to BrunelÆs broad gauge and was double tracked. This means that most of the cuttings and embankments, whilst they might have got overgrown a bit since they saw their last train in 1969, are over 26 feet wide (over 8 metres if you want that in new money). There is plenty of room down there for a cycle track and a railway or an express bus lane alongside it. If Sustrans bill themselves as an eco-friendly organisation, then surely they should be acting like one when congestion relief measures are being proposed? Just a thoughtà

I could keep going on this topic all night but I have other things to do so IÆd better stop, and besides I can feel my critics already formulating their replies so I must give them a chance to write them down But finally back to the matter in hand, the berk on the bike who stopped in front of me in the middle of Devonshire Tunnel was just a one-off; everybody else going through on Saturday were acting sensibly (except of course the kids û perhaps we should ban kids from riding bikes?)