Sydney Gardens - paling into insignificance

[mow]

This is part of a news letter from the ward councillors for Bathwick.

"We welcome the news that the historic footbridge over the railway line in Sydney Gardens has recently been given listed building status (Grade II*) by the Government. Some recent repair work to the wooden walkway on the bridge forced its closure for a few days, but the work has now been completed.

Whilst this designation provides additional protection for the bridge, we are still concerned about what plans Network Rail will propose for the Gardens when the electrification of the GWR line is implemented. Residents will be aware that Network Rail have installed a temporary fence alongside the track in order to comply with safety requirements, set by the Office of the Rail Regulator. The Council was consulted about the fence, but there was no prior public consultation or discussion before the fence was installed. We have made representations to Network Rail and have received assurances that any permanent solutions will be openly discussed and presented before any final decisions are made.
Nick Coombes and David Martin will have regular meetings with Network Rail staff in order to keep informed about progress with their planning. We will stress the historic importance of Sydney Gardens and the need to recognise the cultural setting in which the Gardens have been built."

[horace]

This is part of a news letter from the ward councillors for Bathwick.

"We welcome the news that the historic footbridge over the railway line in Sydney Gardens has recently been given listed building status (Grade II*) by the Government. Some recent repair work to the wooden walkway on the bridge forced its closure for a few days, but the work has now been completed.

Whilst this designation provides additional protection for the bridge, we are still concerned about what plans Network Rail will propose for the Gardens when the electrification of the GWR line is implemented. Residents will be aware that Network Rail have installed a temporary fence alongside the track in order to comply with safety requirements, set by the Office of the Rail Regulator. The Council was consulted about the fence, but there was no prior public consultation or discussion before the fence was installed. We have made representations to Network Rail and have received assurances that any permanent solutions will be openly discussed and presented before any final decisions are made.
Nick Coombes and David Martin will have regular meetings with Network Rail staff in order to keep informed about progress with their planning. We will stress the historic importance of Sydney Gardens and the need to recognise the cultural setting in which the Gardens have been built."

My point entirely, when the public consultation starts is when the objections and campaigns start, that is if it ever gets that far.

[Robin Summerhill]

I've had a little go at the Health & Safety mania we have in this country on another thread.

Here is a little example that I was reminded of when on one of my "social pariah" tobacco runs to Belgium last Monday (which also explains why I've been a little quiet around here this week )

Virtually unfenced crossing, 4 passenger trains an hour crossing it, at Ypres:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll= ... 29,,0,1.76

What would "our lot" do with it?

[free2grice]

Virtually unfenced crossing, 4 passenger trains an hour crossing it, at Ypres:

No palisade fencing and not a dead body to be seen. How strange!! <BJ>

[jules]

No palisade fencing and not a dead body to be seen. How strange!! <BJ>

I am reaching the conclusion that following our various travels to foreign soils, perhaps it is only in the UK that we take such an H&S overkill (excuse pun).

[Robin Summerhill]

No palisade fencing and not a dead body to be seen. How strange!! <BJ>

I am reaching the conclusion that following our various travels to foreign soils, perhaps it is only in the UK that we take such an H&S overkill (excuse pun).

I reached that conclusion years ago, and I am reminded of line from "Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy" where the Council foreman says to Arthur Dent who is lying in front of his bulldozer:

"Mr Dent, do you know how much damage would cause to this bulldozer if I let it go straight over you? Absolutely none ..."

99.99999% of people understand that railways are potentially dangerous places, and keeping out of the way of moving trains is pretty good self-preservation practice. Nevertheless, in the UK we seem to think that we must always invoke H&S legislation for the 0.000001% of people who might not understand this basic concept of extending their own time on this planet.

To get this back on to the topic of Sydney Gardens, even on this thread we have had people nodding sagely and saying variations on "ah - yes - well - NR have to something because its dangerous" (despite the fact that its been like that for over 170years) whilst virtually every other country in the world (and I'm thinking especially of those I have had most experience of - most of Western Europe, USA, Australia and South Africa) manages with unfenced tracks, unfenced crossings, trains running down the middle of the road, and so on.

And the trouble is, we're not even consistent in this country. Whilst we're busily putting up architectural carbuncles in Sydney Gardens, or fencing off platform ends because some 'erbert might walk off the end of one, go to Croydon or Birmingham or Sheffield or Blackpool or a host of other places, and trams happily run down the centre of the street without a bit of fencing anywhere to be found.

And before anybody says "Ah, trams are different" - not if you get hit by a moving one they're not. The outcome for you will be the same as being hit by a train.

The only positive aspect that I can see to all this is that it isn't somehing people can blame the EU for

[jules]

And before anybody says "Ah, trams are different" - not if you get hit by a moving one they're not. The outcome for you will be the same as being hit by a train.

I was particularly impressed by the trams in Portland, Oregon. They run as trams downtown, but as soon as they are out of the city, they take off with tremendous acceleration and top speed. Quite surprised me really. And on the high speed bits, there they do either fence off the tracks or put them between two carriageways of equally fast moving traffic. Theory being I suppose that people might not quite expect a tram to be traveling that fast.

I presume that they have some sort of safety switch for downtown operation, as an errant tram driver would cause chaos if he accidentally hit the "launch" button!

Whilst we are talking about "person / vehicle interfaces" - you are still jay walking in the US and likely to get a ticket, if you cross anywhere but at an intersection or against a "Don't Walk" light, even if there isn't a single car in sight! I am also surprised at how polite American drivers are to pedestrians walking across the vast supermarket carparks. Half of the drivers at Eastville Tesco would be arrested if they behaved in the US as they do here ...

[the green mile]

Fencing off tramlines would have spoilt the storyline in Coronation Street years ago when Alan Bradley got his comeuppance in front of a tram on the Golden Mile at Blackpool - not that I watch that rubbish of course!

Twenty years ago I successfully sued a driver who knocked me down by launching her car backwards out of a parking space at Homebase in Swindon. Her excuse - the kids were playing up!

While I do agree that the fencing at Sydney Gardens is an eyesore and an obvious buggerance for photographers, I do think that the low wall by itself is a bit 'open'.

[Robin Summerhill]

While I do agree that the fencing at Sydney Gardens is an eyesore and an obvious buggerance for photographers, I do think that the low wall by itself is a bit 'open'.

An interesting statement.

How much more "open" is this wall than Keynsham or Oldfield Park station platforms where HSTs are running through just as fast if not faster (in the case of Keynsham) than through Sydney Gardens?

Perhaps we should fence off station platform faces on Health & Safety grounds? After all, some idiot with a death wish might walk straight off one in front of a train. It's just got to make sense from an H&S viewpoint, hasn't it?

Just a minute, though - I think I see a problem with this idea.....

[Robin Summerhill]

I was particularly impressed by the trams in Portland, Oregon. They run as trams downtown, but as soon as they are out of the city, they take off with tremendous acceleration and top speed.

We do actualy have much the same thing in this country. Last year I did a series of trips to London to travel everywhere you could on a Travelcard (OK, I admit to being a sad case ) and I travelled the entire length of the Croydon Tramlink network.

On former railway sections such as Wimbledon to Croydon and Addiscombe to Elmers End they get up to a fair rate of knots, but they still don't hang about in central Croydon either.

But just to get back on topic, have we a serving or ex- HST driver on here who could say how fast HSTs are actually travelling as they go past Sydney Gardens, both up and down?

I presume that they have some sort of safety switch for downtown operation, as an errant tram driver would cause chaos if he accidentally hit the "launch" button!

That's the basic skill of driving, in exactly the same way that you don't floor your accellerator in your car past a school at chucking-out time

[the green mile]

Platforms are there for a purpose i.e. to permit access to trains. Sydney gardens is a recreational area where with the best will in the world, you can't keep an eye on children 100% of the time.

[Robin Summerhill]

Platforms are there for a purpose i.e. to permit access to trains. Sydney gardens is a recreational area where with the best will in the world, you can't keep an eye on children 100% of the time.

But again, there is the matter of self-preservation.

When I was a kid I used to play regularly at Rodway Hill, up behind Mangotsfield station. In order to get there, I used the footpath crossing two sets of tracks to the east of the station - fully open and unfenced. Somehow I, and countless others, survived to tell the tale.

We need some figures. How many fatalities have there been at Sydney Gardens since 1840?

[the green mile]

When I was a kid and lived alongside a railway line, it was a frequent occurrence to climb over the garden wall to retrieve a mis-kicked football from the track. But I always did it with my heart in my mouth because I knew I wasn't supposed to be there. I think kids today have a bit more bravado.