S&D 2-8-0s North of Bath

[jules]

I came across this photo of a 7F taken on the docks branch line near California Crossing (south of Glos Eastgate station).

Question: Does anybody know why it was called "California Crossing"?

[Robin Summerhill]

I came across this photo of a 7F taken on the docks branch line near California Crossing (south of Glos Eastgate station).

Question: Does anybody know why it was called "California Crossing"?

The short answer is "no" but the word does not only appear in place names in the USA.

There is a California Road in Longwell Green (named after California Farm in the same area), and if you put a search for California Road into Google Maps you get at least another four examples in the UK.

There are of course literally hundreds if not thousands of UK place names appearing in the USA. Pennsylvania for instance (also a hamlet on the A46 between Bath and the M4), there are at least 5 Bristols in the USA (Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and Maine) and also, to get nearly back to the off-topic element of this thread that started this (:) ) there's a Gloucester in Massachusetts.

I need to get a life ......

[jules]

Yes of course Robin

I won't put this thread off topic any further, other than in closing to mention a few US place names from near me in Oregon. Our West Coast mainline heads South from Albany through "Shedd", then passes close to "Drain" ... I'll say no more

[railwest]

Does anybody know why it was called "California Crossing"?

There is a (sort of) answer to be found at http://oldgloucester.visit-gloucestersh ... feed1.html . Mind you, it doesn't tell us WHY the developer chose that name

[40700]

Hmmmm ....

Alan

As we stood together on a number of occasions in the early 60s and watched the bloody things go by, I'm not sure that my views represent those of an independent third party :mrgreen:

As we both know, your correspondent on another forum is talking a load of dingo's kidneys (quote from Douglas Adams, in case anybody is interested). I saw my first 7F (well, shall we say the first time that I recognised one for what it was, rather than simply as a "steam engine going by" in the days before I got interested) was at the eastern portal of Staple Hill tunnel in mid-1962. It was 53810, and it was employed on one of the coal trains going to Stapleton Road gas works, which was one of their regular duties out of Bath. They were also frequently seen in Avonmouth and Westerleigh sidings.

This certainly applied in the post-nationalisation era. The only caveat that I would put on all this is that the S&D, of course, was still considered an LMS/SR joint line until 1930, and the locomotives were built specifically for S&D work. There was also of course a separate Midland shed at Bath Green Park, but whether or not there were two sets of men/ two sets of management prior to 1930 I wouldn't know.

So what I am saying is, while the S&D was still considered a separate entity prior to 1930, I could envisage a situation where they only worked south from Bath. I could also envisage this carrying on as "custom and practice" in later years. How late "later years" might apply is something else I must leave to others to comment on.

Notwithstanding all that, it is certainly the case that the 7Fs worked north of Bath on freight regularly to Westerleigh, Avonmouth and Stapleton Road gas works. I never personally saw one on a passenger working north of Bath, but it would be a very confident man indeed who would say it never happened. I can easily envisage a situation where the Shedmaster at Bath, faced with a couple of failures and only having a 7F available for traffic immediately, would have rostered one for a northbound passenger train. However, as far as I am aware, Green Park men worked north only as far as Gloucester and, if one was rostered on a northbound train, I'm pretty sure the driver would have gone with strict instructions to bring it straight back :)

GREEN PARK CREWS DID WORK NORTH OF GLOUCESTER,THEY WORKED THE LIECESTER PARCELS TO BIRMINGHAM&RETURN MON/FRI.THE 7F WERE ONLY ALLOWED TO GLOS ANDBEYOND LIGHT ENGINE.

[Robin Summerhill]

... THE 7F WERE ONLY ALLOWED TO GLOS AND BEYOND LIGHT ENGINE.

Interestingly, the 1962 WTT for Glocuester division freight trains (here, page 77: http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk ... 62%20B.pdf ) shows that the 7Fs were techically prohibited north of Charfield, although this does beg the question how did they get to Derby for overhaul if they weren't allowed up there?

This WTT entry also probably answers the original question in this thread - perhaps somebody has looked at the WTT and taken that as "gospel."

We do of course also have the photgraphic evidence on page 1 of this thread which shows a 7F actually working a train at California crossing.

The instructions in the WTT were clearly being "interpreted" on this occasion

[buxton4472]

.... the 1962 WTT for Glocuester division freight trains ....

Quite off topic I know but having looked at that WTT it was interesting that the old Severn & Wye route was still showing entries for the evening freights using the Berkeley South Jcn - Berkeley Loop Jcn chord, despite the Severn Bridge having been rendered unusable nearly two years previously! If timings had been similar in the winter 1960 WTT then one of them - 7T67 7:35 pm East Depot - Rogerstone - could have actually been passing over the bridge at the time of the collision of the barge with the bridge pier (25 October 1960, 10:35 pm) and the column entry in the 1962 WTT - 'SUSPENDED' - could have taken on a frightening significance! Sorry for the total deviation from the thread - didn't know quite where to put it!

[buxton4472]

Interestingly, the 1962 WTT for Glocuester division freight trains (here, page 77: http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk ... 62%20B.pdf ) shows that the 7Fs were techically prohibited north of Charfield, although this does beg the question how did they get to Derby for overhaul if they weren't allowed up there?

Quoting from Colin Roberts' fascinating memories of his time at Yate station, see
http://semaphore.avonvalleyrailway.org/html/frames.html

"On Tuesday 16th August (1960) S & D class 7F 2-8-0 53804 was working a down freight on her way back to Bath, after a visit to Derby Works for what would be her final repair there. The tender still had the old type crest, but the signs (flashes) had been affixed to the boiler and tender as was then standard practice. Even though the locomotive, in all probability, would not be used 'under the wires', no chances were taken.

So they were definitely seen in revenue-earning service between Gloucester and Westereligh Sidings.

[Robin Summerhill]

Even though the locomotive, in all probability, would not be used 'under the wires', no chances were taken.

In 1960, the only"wires" on the LMR were north of Crewe, towards Liverpool and Manchester, and the Manchester area itself (and the ex-MR Lancaster to Morecambe line, if you want to be pedantic about it! )

A 7F "working home" from Derby I can imagine, but not one sitting on Speke Junction or Stockport Edgeley depots

[trafalgar45682]

Have just come across this recently published photo of 53807 on Flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44544845@N ... 2749818681