At Murco westerleigh today some people drove up the road (which is private), parked in the Murco carpark and then went wandering around the locomotive.
Just a note to say that the supervisor on duty was not amused to say the least!!!
Please remember this road is private. I think they turn a blind eye to people in the layby along this road but you cannot really park in their carpark and go wandering arounf the railway lines.
If people continue to do this they will clamp down on everyone.
Warning about trespass.
Murco is probably about the only place where you can get up close and personal to a loco. I doubt if it was anyone who uses this website it seems to only occur on Saturdays probably because you get those who want to chase a certain loco around the country.
We are well used to "spotters/enthusiasts watching us will shunting the train together and have to say the majority are respectfull and park without causing any problems.
Just have to say that the supervisor up there can be a bit jeckll and hyde at times not unknow for him to bollock us for a slight error.
We are well used to "spotters/enthusiasts watching us will shunting the train together and have to say the majority are respectfull and park without causing any problems.
Just have to say that the supervisor up there can be a bit jeckll and hyde at times not unknow for him to bollock us for a slight error.
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carpetcone
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Robin Summerhill
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Just to put all this in perspective:
I must admit to not having been anywhere really close to Westerleigh Sidings (well, except for going up and down the M4 and a recent walk along the old, recently cleared, railway formation from the bridge over the Parkfield to Henfield road down to the fence on the south side of the M4 bridge) since you could be on a passenger train going that way pre-December 1969.
That said - this forum is full of people who by their own admission (me included by the way
) have bunked Barrow Road, St Phillips Marsh and Bath Road sheds; who have no doubt (like me) trespassed all over Bath Green Park and Templecombe in March 1966, Bournemouth, Weymouth, Eastleigh and Nine Elms in 1966/67; and were part of the metaphoric plague of locusts (like me) that descended upon Lostock Hall, Rose Grove and Carnforth in late July and early August 1968.
Just a few of the antics that I and many others got up to in the 1960s, in the days when "Elfin Safety" meant you looked out for yourself and made sure that you didn't get in the way of 500 tons of moving train or 100 tons of moving locomotive, because you had a fair idea which of you would come second in the resultant altercation if you did.
Somehow we all lived to tell the tale ...
May I hazard a guess that these heinous trespassers have not left blood and an assortment of limbs and guts hanging around in Westerleigh for some poor unfortunate bugger to have to pick up? Thought not
Perpsective gentlemen please!!!!! (and a tale from days gone by for our younger readers!
)
I must admit to not having been anywhere really close to Westerleigh Sidings (well, except for going up and down the M4 and a recent walk along the old, recently cleared, railway formation from the bridge over the Parkfield to Henfield road down to the fence on the south side of the M4 bridge) since you could be on a passenger train going that way pre-December 1969.
That said - this forum is full of people who by their own admission (me included by the way
) have bunked Barrow Road, St Phillips Marsh and Bath Road sheds; who have no doubt (like me) trespassed all over Bath Green Park and Templecombe in March 1966, Bournemouth, Weymouth, Eastleigh and Nine Elms in 1966/67; and were part of the metaphoric plague of locusts (like me) that descended upon Lostock Hall, Rose Grove and Carnforth in late July and early August 1968. Just a few of the antics that I and many others got up to in the 1960s, in the days when "Elfin Safety" meant you looked out for yourself and made sure that you didn't get in the way of 500 tons of moving train or 100 tons of moving locomotive, because you had a fair idea which of you would come second in the resultant altercation if you did.
Somehow we all lived to tell the tale ...
May I hazard a guess that these heinous trespassers have not left blood and an assortment of limbs and guts hanging around in Westerleigh for some poor unfortunate bugger to have to pick up? Thought not
Perpsective gentlemen please!!!!! (and a tale from days gone by for our younger readers!
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carpetcone
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Says who?! Just what law would you be breaking if you dared to venture down a road marked "private"?tonyperks wrote:Dont forget as mentioned in the first post by Bristol Ron, that the road leading to Murco is a Private Road You shouldnt be down there any way.
The Murco legal department will run like chickens if challenged. They certainly did when I fought back against them a few years ago.
As I said before, don't go on the railway tracks and take as many pictures as you like....Murco always appreciate a few copies sent to them for their own portfolio
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Robin Summerhill
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^^^ Interesting points made up there, so I had a look at the Ordnance Survey map and put my Surveyors hat back on to see what the status was of this "private road."
Both roads that lead down from the main road (ie. the road to the abattoir and the track leading down by the side of the line from Kidney Hill cottages) are designated as public footpaths as far as the level crossing to the north of the terminal, so you are therefore quite legally allowed to be there. On foot (and possibly horseback if you had a mind, but not in a car) as far as that point. Murco may well not like you being there, but there is nothing they can do to stop you using a public footpath across their land (if indeed they own the land that far away from the terminal).
However, trespass is one of those funny things in law - you can put up as many "trespassers will be prosecuted" notices as you like on your own private land (and many people do), but they are not worth the paint used on them - there is no common law offence of trespass. It is a civil matter and the only recourse available to the person who owns the land is to sue you for damages which, if you haven't caused any damage, is rather a pointlesss exercise in most circumstances.
There are specific offences of criminal trespass which only apply in certain circumstances - these include trespassing on railway or MOD land, and royal palaces. For these specific offences you can be nicked under common law.
So thats 10 minutes of my life wasted writing about civil trespass on a railway forum
. Now the specifics of the case, access to the terminal itself. Legally, it is private land with no public access so you ain't supposed to be there. Full stop. But, the question then arises whether the Westerleigh Oil Terminal is railway land within the meaning of criminal trespass. This question is not necessarily as daft as you might think.
Certainly it would have been classed as railway land when the MR Westerleigh sidings were still operating, but that activity ceased many years ago. I don't know whether the land was sold by the BRB and then purchased by sombody else at a later stage in order to run the oil terminal from there but, if so, it may be that it is no longer classed as railway land to bring it within the scope of criminal trespass.
So, the upshot of all this. If you go down to the terminal today without the express permission of Murco you are trespassing. You may be committing civil trespass, in which case they have no effective sanction except telling you to sod off, unless you cause damage that they could sue you for. Alternatively you may be committing criminal trespass for which you could be fined ("a penalty not exceeding forty shillings" it says on most of the signs but I wouldn't believe that if I were you )
However, in order for that matter to be taken any further you would need to be caught doing it by PC Plod, and the likelihood of one of them just idly hanging around Murco's terminal in order to catch you is remote to say the least. Murco staff would have no power of detention so, to all intents and purposes, even if you were committing criminal trespass the likelihood is that the only reasonable recourse available to Murco would be for their Supervisor suggesting you might like to "go forth and multiply" or words to that effect ...
In essence, therefore, nothing serious is going to happen to you if you go and have a look at the movements at Murco oil terminal. And leaving aside all the legal technicalities, just imagine what a field day the local press would have if Murco did decide to get heavy-handed - anyone like the headline "International Oil Company in War on Trainspotters"?
I don't think Murco would
Both roads that lead down from the main road (ie. the road to the abattoir and the track leading down by the side of the line from Kidney Hill cottages) are designated as public footpaths as far as the level crossing to the north of the terminal, so you are therefore quite legally allowed to be there. On foot (and possibly horseback if you had a mind, but not in a car) as far as that point. Murco may well not like you being there, but there is nothing they can do to stop you using a public footpath across their land (if indeed they own the land that far away from the terminal).
However, trespass is one of those funny things in law - you can put up as many "trespassers will be prosecuted" notices as you like on your own private land (and many people do), but they are not worth the paint used on them - there is no common law offence of trespass. It is a civil matter and the only recourse available to the person who owns the land is to sue you for damages which, if you haven't caused any damage, is rather a pointlesss exercise in most circumstances.
There are specific offences of criminal trespass which only apply in certain circumstances - these include trespassing on railway or MOD land, and royal palaces. For these specific offences you can be nicked under common law.
So thats 10 minutes of my life wasted writing about civil trespass on a railway forum
. Now the specifics of the case, access to the terminal itself. Legally, it is private land with no public access so you ain't supposed to be there. Full stop. But, the question then arises whether the Westerleigh Oil Terminal is railway land within the meaning of criminal trespass. This question is not necessarily as daft as you might think.Certainly it would have been classed as railway land when the MR Westerleigh sidings were still operating, but that activity ceased many years ago. I don't know whether the land was sold by the BRB and then purchased by sombody else at a later stage in order to run the oil terminal from there but, if so, it may be that it is no longer classed as railway land to bring it within the scope of criminal trespass.
So, the upshot of all this. If you go down to the terminal today without the express permission of Murco you are trespassing. You may be committing civil trespass, in which case they have no effective sanction except telling you to sod off, unless you cause damage that they could sue you for. Alternatively you may be committing criminal trespass for which you could be fined ("a penalty not exceeding forty shillings" it says on most of the signs but I wouldn't believe that if I were you
) However, in order for that matter to be taken any further you would need to be caught doing it by PC Plod, and the likelihood of one of them just idly hanging around Murco's terminal in order to catch you is remote to say the least. Murco staff would have no power of detention so, to all intents and purposes, even if you were committing criminal trespass the likelihood is that the only reasonable recourse available to Murco would be for their Supervisor suggesting you might like to "go forth and multiply" or words to that effect ...
In essence, therefore, nothing serious is going to happen to you if you go and have a look at the movements at Murco oil terminal. And leaving aside all the legal technicalities, just imagine what a field day the local press would have if Murco did decide to get heavy-handed - anyone like the headline "International Oil Company in War on Trainspotters"?
I don't think Murco would
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bristolron
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Just to clarify a couple of points.
The Murco carpark is private property. Why not park in the layby further up and walk down.
People were wandering on the tracks hence the concern.
Remember the Murco site if a fuel storage depot hence the fact they do not like people wandering about. Just think if it were not trainspotters wandering about the loco (which was running) but a couple of terrorists who could have easily set the loco in motion and rammed through the gates!
The Murco carpark is private property. Why not park in the layby further up and walk down.
People were wandering on the tracks hence the concern.
Remember the Murco site if a fuel storage depot hence the fact they do not like people wandering about. Just think if it were not trainspotters wandering about the loco (which was running) but a couple of terrorists who could have easily set the loco in motion and rammed through the gates!
It's not just the trespass that's the problem. There's unloading of fuel going on and so much as a camera shutter or mobile phone going off could cause an explosion.
When I took my photos at the site the guy with me had monitoring devices placed around me and took a measurement of what was in the air before I was allowed to click the shutter.
There's also rather a lot of HGV traffic to and from the site carrying all that fuel away.
When I took my photos at the site the guy with me had monitoring devices placed around me and took a measurement of what was in the air before I was allowed to click the shutter.
There's also rather a lot of HGV traffic to and from the site carrying all that fuel away.
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bristolron
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Rich_Eason
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This is a very valid point, and more the reason why the guy was upset about 'tresspassing'.madhattie wrote:It's not just the trespass that's the problem. There's unloading of fuel going on and so much as a camera shutter or mobile phone going off could cause an explosion.
When I took my photos at the site the guy with me had monitoring devices placed around me and took a measurement of what was in the air before I was allowed to click the shutter.
There's also rather a lot of HGV traffic to and from the site carrying all that fuel away.
As an obligation for their operators licence they should know who is and who is not on site at anyone time. In the event of a fire, and or explosion a muster will be taken and who is to know if you are there or not.
But then the chances of that happening are slim, however you are not briefed or inducted on site and know the pitfalls or dangers....ignition being a very obvious one.
As a Construction site manager in previous job, if you came into my site wandered about and fell down a hole impaling yourself on Rebar...more fool you.
Personal view is there is no need for it.
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50022Anson
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Westerleigh OT
Good day all, just thought i'd clear up this debate as I think things have been over exaggerated!
Firstly I must agree though regarding those who park in a car park which is clearly marked private and considering there is one for visitors just across the road out of harms way. And you must surely be a sandwich short of a picnic if you think you can wander across the tracks in view of the offices when you can get a perfectly good pic of the parked 60 from the grass verge. I have been a regular now for 25 years down the branch whether it was the rubbish train or tanks and have always been made
welcome by the site staff and train crew alike, my young children have even been in the cab once or twice, so if you use your common sense and stay out of harms way all is well ! There is no real reason to loiter down
there anyway as your 'shot' is always preferred by the public crossing or further up the branch, unless you want the morning sunny shot, bring an orange jacket and you maybe invited across by a member of the train crew at their discression....abit like being invited into the cab of a train at a station...its private, no public entry but good old driver discression. And to make it clear to those not been down there, those 'tresspassers' are no where near the fuelling roads as its within the confines of a fenced area so no risk of trauma or igniting the storage tanks with your phone! Im one who is totally against this nanny state and the crazy health and safety nonsense but I guess there are people in society who let the majority of us down !
Firstly I must agree though regarding those who park in a car park which is clearly marked private and considering there is one for visitors just across the road out of harms way. And you must surely be a sandwich short of a picnic if you think you can wander across the tracks in view of the offices when you can get a perfectly good pic of the parked 60 from the grass verge. I have been a regular now for 25 years down the branch whether it was the rubbish train or tanks and have always been made
welcome by the site staff and train crew alike, my young children have even been in the cab once or twice, so if you use your common sense and stay out of harms way all is well ! There is no real reason to loiter down
there anyway as your 'shot' is always preferred by the public crossing or further up the branch, unless you want the morning sunny shot, bring an orange jacket and you maybe invited across by a member of the train crew at their discression....abit like being invited into the cab of a train at a station...its private, no public entry but good old driver discression. And to make it clear to those not been down there, those 'tresspassers' are no where near the fuelling roads as its within the confines of a fenced area so no risk of trauma or igniting the storage tanks with your phone! Im one who is totally against this nanny state and the crazy health and safety nonsense but I guess there are people in society who let the majority of us down !
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mangotsfield_mauler
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bristolron
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Just a quick response to some of the comments.
I think Murco now own the access road as they have been spending a lot of money on it and they are trying to buy the old rubbish railhead. The visitors carpark also belongs to Murco. You can go and buy the latest ordnance survey map and it will be out of date so don't rely on that.
The Murco staff are generally very friendly I just think this chap was a bit annoyed that 3 people were wandering around the railway track by an unattended loco.
As I said at the beginning please use a bit of common sense at this site.
I think Murco now own the access road as they have been spending a lot of money on it and they are trying to buy the old rubbish railhead. The visitors carpark also belongs to Murco. You can go and buy the latest ordnance survey map and it will be out of date so don't rely on that.
The Murco staff are generally very friendly I just think this chap was a bit annoyed that 3 people were wandering around the railway track by an unattended loco.
As I said at the beginning please use a bit of common sense at this site.
I have purposely stayed out of this discussion. But as a former shunter, I'd just like to remind people that the job always has - and still is - statistically the most dangerous job on the railway. Sadly, incidents involving life and limb have been all too common in the past.
So the last thing any shunter wants when he is attempting to concentrate on operations is members of the public running all over the place - who are untrained and usually completely unaware of anything but the most obvious of dangers.
Watch by all means, but stay well clear, stay safe and don't distract the operational staff. Your distraction could end up as their accident.
So the last thing any shunter wants when he is attempting to concentrate on operations is members of the public running all over the place - who are untrained and usually completely unaware of anything but the most obvious of dangers.
Watch by all means, but stay well clear, stay safe and don't distract the operational staff. Your distraction could end up as their accident.