DEPG West Somerset Diesel Gala

[jules]

Just notice to all that June 10th, 11th 12th sees the annual D&EPG (Diesel & Electric Preservation Group) Diesel Gala on the West Somerset Railway. This year, we have 4 * Class 59's (a first!) courtesy of Mendip Rail, plus all the home fleet in operation: Western D1010, Warship D832, Hymek D7017, 33 D6566, 47 D1661 North Star, 25 D7523 plus Teddy Bear D9526, 03 D2119 and 08 D3462. Come and see the impressive progress our second Class 33 D6575 is also making under restoration.

The home diesel depot will be open to the public with yours truly in attendance to show visitors round.

http://www.west-somerset-railway.co.uk/ ... 14&xPage=1

http://www.depg.org

Come visit and say Hello. Bristol Railway Archive members get a free cup of tea and a biscuit in the D&EPG mess room (I'll make it myself!)

[free2grice]

The weekend has been advertised as a Mixed Traction gala. What does 'Mixed Traction' mean in this instance ? Does it mean a GM 'Ying-Ying' on a passenger service in one direction and another GM 'Ying-Ying' hauling a modern stone train in the opposite direction?
Ten diesel locomotives and one small 2-6-2 tank could hardly be described as Mixed Traction. <BJ>

[jules]

Well, actually, we at D&EPG would prefer to call it a "Diesel Gala", but the powers that be at the WSR insist we call it "Mixed Traction". As the WSR sees itself as primarily a steam railway (which of course it is), they feel it is important to have at least one steam diagram in there for the people who might turn up expecting to see a "steam train", unaware that the weekend is primarily our diesel gala.

We are happy to compromise of course. We do get regular summer turns for our heritage diesel fleet and they also do a lot of work throughout the year on behind the scenes infrastructure work etc.

But the prime purpose of the weekend is that for one weekend in fifty two, us diesel guys get to show off our locos, which are now just as much heritage locos and as much part of the history and overall scene as the steam traction they replaced.

The 59's are attending for several reasons:

#1 It is a first for this class of loco to operate in a gala, let alone 4 of them.
#2 To acknowledge that the 59's played an historic role on the UK traction scene following their introduction in 1985 (People may not like it, but they did!)
#3 To acknowledge their 25 years reliable service on UK rails.
#4 To acknowledge the generosity and support that Foster Yeoman and now Mendip Rail, have shown to the D&EPG over the years, including the 4 * 59s attending the gala.

Without Foster Yeoman, we wouldn't now be the proud owners and operators of D1010!

[Robin Summerhill]

Just notice to all that June 10th, 11th 12th sees the annual D&EPG (Diesel & Electric Preservation Group) Diesel Gala on the West Somerset Railway......

The home diesel depot will be open to the public with yours truly in attendance to show visitors round.

Come visit and say Hello. Bristol Railway Archive members get a free cup of tea and a biscuit in the D&EPG mess room (I'll make it myself!)

Just a thought ....

Whilst heritage diesels are not particularly my cup of tea (for example, the introduction of the D400s - class 50s to you youngsters - was the final diesel class to arrive on the scene prior to the end of steam in 1968) does anybody else fancy a meeing of Bristol Railway Archive contributors and members at the WSR whilst this is going on, shall we say on Sunday 12th?

Perhaps a chance for some of us to meet up and, as Jules has already mentioned, the teapot will be on hand?

[jules]

Perhaps a chance for some of us to meet up and, as Jules has already mentioned, the teapot will be on hand? Mr. Green

Well, we'd certainly be pleased to see anyone who wants to come and say hello, either by taking a train from Bishops Lydeard or by car direct to Williton (warning: parking is limited - use the industrial estate near the station). If people are interested, name a time on the Sunday (2pm?) and I'll make sure I am at depot rather than out riding around on a loco The diesel depot will be open so you can come and see behind the scenes at Williton.

Kettle will certainly be on and we even have a Pasty Van for anyone who gets hungry.

Otherwise, I've been thinking maybe a BRA meet up would be a good idea in any case, but I'd been thinking along the lines of seeing if anyone were interested in meeting up and saying hello in Bristol one evening. Somewhere near Temple Meads would seem logical

[free2grice]

Kettle will certainly be on .....

.....but only one. <BJ>

[nickt]

"sees itself as primarily a steam railway (which of course it is), "
" which are now just as much heritage locos and as much part of the history and overall scene as the steam traction they replaced."

Comments along the lines of the above have been the cause of of a protracted debate at another railway (facebook page) recently. Some people think steam is the be all and end all of railway heritage and diesel locos are not heritage. Although I am a loco fireman and have been for some while, I still have a passion for Diesel. A little while ago a person was heard to say people want steam, they dont want diesel , if they get to the top of the steps and see a diesel they will turn around and go. I hope to get to your gala all being well and work permitting.
How long before the 33 is likely to be complete.

[Robin Summerhill]

A little while ago a person was heard to say people want steam, they dont want diesel , if they get to the top of the steps and see a diesel they will turn around and go.

Rather OT, but on another forum recently a heated debate broke out about the replica Lynton & Barnstaple Railway Manning Wardle "Lyd" and its being turned out temporarily as BR 30190.

Comments included such gems as "I wouldn't bother to go to the end of our street to see it in that livery"

As they say, there's nowt as queer as folk .......

[jules]

Some people think steam is the be all and end all of railway heritage and diesel locos are not heritage.

Well, that's a debate that will probably go on forever (at least until the last of the people who actually remember steam on the mainline are long gone - and then some). It's probably not a debate we'd wish to kick off here as it is available on plenty of other forums as you say.

A little while ago a person was heard to say people want steam, they don't want diesel , if they get to the top of the steps and see a diesel they will turn around and go.

As an active diesel preservationist who also has the dubious pleasure of looking after the finances, I would give this personal opinion: Anything that brings in money to a heritage railway is to be encouraged. If people want to see steam, then let them see it by all means. But even so, I do find the statement above to be a rather sad, selfish and totally blinkered one, though I too have heard it.

Modernisation plan diesels such as the D&EPG's ARE now heritage locos and there are plenty of people too who do want to see them, ride behind them and enjoy them. A heritage railway should offer the widest experience possible to the widest audience, thereby keeping as many people as possible happy (steam and diesel fans) and maximising overall income to the railway as a whole.

There are also many dedicated volunteers on the diesel side and it is important they too should be rewarded by "adequate" opportunities to see their locos in public service. Plus many heritage railways would be bust if they had to rely on steam alone, as steam is an order of ten or twenty times more expensive to operate for all those infrastructure trains and empty stock moves than diesel is - that's why BR got rid of it!

So, anyone who walks away because there is the "wrong type of traction" is just being overly selfish and pedantic in my view - be it diesel OR steam!

Our second 33 D6575 / 33057 will be on display at Williton over the gala weekend. It has had a tremendous amount of bodywork done (i.e. good as new) and a *superb* paint job by Cranmore Traincare & Maintenance. Tyres have been turned by FGW at St Philips Marsh. The loco is currently missing a heat exchanger I believe, so unfortunately cannot be run, though apart from this it is largely operational. Work is currently ongoing to refurbish the cabs and D6575 will probably be in traffic by the end of the summer.

Here's a current pic:


You can follow the project here:
http://www.depg.org/33057project.html

[free2grice]

Plus many heritage railways would be bust if they had to rely on steam alone, as steam is an order of ten or twenty times more expensive to operate for all those infrastructure trains and empty stock moves than diesel is - that's why BR got rid of it!

Evidently diesels are very popular and very cheap to run. How long do you think the WSR would survive if steam was abandoned and diesels were to take over completely? <BJ>

[Robin Summerhill]

Plus many heritage railways would be bust if they had to rely on steam alone, as steam is an order of ten or twenty times more expensive to operate for all those infrastructure trains and empty stock moves than diesel is - that's why BR got rid of it!

Evidently diesels are very popular and very cheap to run. How long do you think the WSR would survive if steam was abandoned and diesels were to take over completely? <BJ>

This has been a problem that has been around since Heritage railways were in their infancy. Even those who purport to have nothing to do with diesels, such as the Bluebell, still have them kicking around for engineering workings.

And there is a real difficulty - if you took your car into your local garage to buy a tankful of unleaded and were told "Sorry mate, we've decided to only flog diesel today" you would be justifiably disgruntled.

No matter what you buy, you expect to get what it says on the tin, so to speak.

Nobody doubts for one minute that first generation diesels are as much "heritage" as steam - indeed, whilst in conversation last week at Chippenham station waiting for 60019 to turn up, I happened to remark to another enthusiast (as an HST blocked our view and we were praying for it to get out of the way in time) that that HST was in fact older than the "Jubilees" were when I first got involved in railway enthusiasm!

Nevertheless, if Wayne and Tracey take little Kyle and Zak to see a "steam train" at the WSR or any other heritage railway, they ain't going to be too pleased if their train turn up behind a Hymek - it might be nearly 50 years old but it still looks remarkably similar to things you might find on the business end of a freight train today. And it doesn't hiss and clank and blow off the way that a steam engine does (well, its not supposed to anyway!)

I suppose the only true answer is to have some apartheid within the railway heritage movement - steam preserved railways and diesel preserved railways. I suppose the mid-Norfolk fits the bill in the latter case, but its a bit of a trek for a day trip from our neck of the woods

[jules]

Evidently diesels are very popular and very cheap to run. How long do you think the WSR would survive if steam was abandoned and diesels were to take over completely?

This just demonstrates my point! Now when did I ever say that "diesels should take over completely"? I didn't.

Read:

A heritage railway should offer the widest experience possible to the widest audience, thereby keeping as many people as possible happy (steam and diesel fans) and maximising overall income to the railway as a whole.

Nevertheless, if Wayne and Tracey take little Kyle and Zak to see a "steam train" at the WSR or any other heritage railway, they ain't going to be too pleased if their train turn up behind a Hymek

There might be the odd complaint in this case - but thankfully they seem pretty few and far between. So long as Kyle and Zak get to "see" a steam engine or two in steam, most average people seem satisified. What actually hauls Wayne, Tracey, Kyle and Zak seems oddly irrelevant to most of them.

As for what you get on the day, both steam and diesel turns are fully advertised, both online and in print. Would you go to a cinema not knowing what film was showing that day?

Even so, this is precisely why the WSR doesn't go for an all out diesel gala, but works some steam turns in!

I suppose the only true answer is to have some apartheid within the railway heritage movement

Respectfully, I don't think this is the answer at all. Maybe a little more tolerance from the "steam purists" wouldn't go amiss occasionally? Most heritage railways would be very hard put without the presence of diesels - both for operational reasons and to attract an additional market in passengers who wouldn't visit otherwise. It washes its face, trust me - otherwise it wouldn't be possible to run it in these straitened financial times.

Still, how did I guess in advance which way this conversation might go?

If it was my call and from a purely operational point of view, I'd just put the wires up all the way to Minehead and be done with it!

[Robin Summerhill]

My original post was not written from a steam purist viewpoint, more as a devils advocate. However, a couple of further responses:

As for what you get on the day, both steam and diesel turns are fully advertised, both online and in print. Would you go to a cinema not knowing what film was showing that day?

I agree that you probably wouldn't go to the cinema not knowing what film was on (although I seen to remember we did just that on Saturday mornings as kids ) but that's not a particularly good analogy. Many people will knopw that the WSR exists, but very few of them I would argue know as much about the subject as people who post on and read this forum. And they probably won't bother to find out any more from advertisements/ the internet when they decide to make their trip.

"We're short of something to do today," says Wayne one Saturday morning to Tracey who live in Exeter and don't know the difference between an HST and loco-hauled stock because all they are interested in is finding a door to get in through - "lets take the kids to the steam railway at Minehead for the day." Then they get there and find that its diesel gala weekend, and they're not quite sure what the difference is between these things and the things they see going through St Davids from time to time.

I'll have to take your word for it that complaints from disgruntled visitors in this respect are few and far between and, indeed, presumably there will be a lot more heritage diesel enthusiasts than normal about the place, so this should more than make up for those few who have turned tail and gone off to Paignton for the day instead . So, overall, there is probably more in the till at the end of the day than there would be on a "normal" weekend.

All I am saying is that is has the potential to alienate a small number of potential passengers who might not come again. Yes yes it would be their fault for not finding out what was on that weekend, but that isn't going to change the situation.

If it was my call and from a purely operational point of view, I'd just put the wires up all the way to Minehead and be done with it!

Nah ... third rail ... stop the buggers trespassing

[nickt]

My, this has taken a stick and given it a good poke in an ants nest.
I can see no good reason why both species of rail traction can not live and run together. As has been mentioned before catering for both tastes can mean a difference at the till. Talking of heritage diesel, with the forthcoming electrification of this region, this will undoubtedly mean the passing of the HST into history and heritage. Do I take it that certain people would gladly see these dissapear and re-appear as so many razor blades.
The Willette HST (c) (for a faster shave)
I was fortunate to travel from Westbury to Minehead on HST excursion a couple of years ago which was a great experience, as it happened there was another excursion the same day loco hauled. There was opportunity to ride on steam hauled mk1 stock if one fancied it. Spoilt for choice. Happy as a pig in XXXX.

Another point, I was at Dawlish with family several years ago eating an ice cream and watching the trains go by. We were asked to duck out of way, I noticed that a large contingent of photographers had surrounded our chosen area.. Turns out it was for a HERITAGE class 47 large logo named (different name both sides). As it departed Dawlish station the cameras were clicking like mad. Ahh just remembered BRIAN MORRISON. Saw it on return later . BUt would have been happier if it was a 37.

[jules]

All I am saying is that is has the potential to alienate a small number of potential passengers who might not come again. Yes yes it would be their fault for not finding out what was on that weekend, but that isn't going to change the situation.

Yes I quite agree and it does happen occasionally and we recognise it. We do what we can to mitigate though, as our main aim is for everyone to have a good day out. Whether or not the temporarily disappointed choose to visit again is largely down to the diplomatic and educational skills of the staff at Bishops Lydeard, which fortunately are pretty highly honed!

Nah ... third rail ... stop the buggers trespassing

That would certainly discourage the occasional horse and rider