The later 15xx 0-6-0PT

[C2759]

Reference to the 13 Arches line reminded me of a railtour which, as well as travelling over that line, went into Canons Marsh and in turn has reminded me of a vivid memory I have of seeing one of the outside cylinder short-wheelbase 15xx 0-6-0 pannier tanks on the line heading towards either Canons Marsh or along the north side of the New Cut one Saturday morning probably in 1958 or 1959.

During the 1950's I lived in Ashton Vale and was very familiar with Ashton Park which was next to the line between Ashton Junction and Ashton Swing Bridge North Signal Box. This would be prior to the construction of the Cumberland Basin Flyover.

Originally I believe I am right in saying that all 9 of the 15xx pannier tanks were allocated to London Division and more specifically, probably to Old Oak Common for ECS work at Paddington. At some point I remember hearing that one was being reallocated to Bristol and some time afterwards I can recall peering over the fence at the edge of the pavement next to the swing bridge and seeing one of these engines coming towards me and then disappearing under the road, presumably where the railway became the lower deck of the bridge. At the time I thought I would be seeing that type of engine regularly in future but not long afterwards I heard it had gone on to South Wales.

I have never seen anything subsequently to confirm what I can remember seeing actually happened. Does anyone on the forum know of one of these engines being allocated to Bristol, presumably to St. Philips Marsh, at some time and how long for?

[22A]

At the time I thought I would be seeing that type of engine regularly in future but not long afterwards I heard it had gone on to South Wales.
I have never seen anything subsequently to confirm what I can remember seeing actually happened. Does anyone on the forum know of one of these engines being allocated to Bristol, presumably to St. Philips Marsh, at some time and how long for?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_1500_Class
No mention of Bristol but yes to South Wales

"Four of the class, 1506 to 1509, were based in Wales, Newport Pill, Ebbw Junction & Cardiff Canton"

http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_060_1500.htm
"Again no mention of Bristol

"Most of their work was shunting carriages to and from Old Oak Common yard as the majority were stationed there at sometime in their lives, otherwise they worked in the Newport area."

[22A]

Slightly off topic; this is an imaginary loco. 1' 05" in shows a 0-4-0 version of the 1500s. Could have been useful for very tight curves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRlAssslpYk

[76026]

https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php ... page=alloc shows the allocations of seven of the 15xx, none of which included the Marsh or Bath Road. The nearest allocations to Bristol that it shows around 1958-9 were

-1506 at Ebbw Jn from 1959-62
-1507 at Newport Pill from 1949-60
-1509 at in Ebbw Jn from 1949-59

Did Loco Superintendents occasionally lend or swapped locos informally, off the records? Could the boss at Ebbw Jn have known the boss at the Marsh or Bath Rd, and agreed to a swap or a lend so that 1506 could be tried out at the City Docks? Would such swaps be possible off-record, or would they require some cooperation from Control, who might ask why the xx a 15xx was making that journey?

Another long shot: Could a Newport 15xx have ended up rostered on a train to Bristol due to a loco shortage, then been kept at a Bristol shed for a couple of days to try it out in the docks?

The one story IÔÇÖve heard of an inappropriate loco being rostered on an unlikely train to an unlikely place involved a 1366 class pannier from Weymouth MPD being rostered to haul a freight to Poole or Bournemouth (canÔÇÖt recall which). This happened because a spate of failures left the 1366 as the only serviceable loco available. It would have been a pretty tall order with such a small loco with itÔÇÖs small water tanks and small bunker, let alone that the crew were apparently asked to avoid if possible delaying passenger trains behind them. The story goes that they got their train to its destination but didnÔÇÖt wish ever, ever to repeat the experience.

I guess there must have been occasional unlikely loco rosterings between S. Wales and Bristol from time to time. Could the 15xx have been sent to address a shortage of Severn Tunnel bankers, then been needed to continue assisting a train as far as Bristol, then been kept in Bristol for a couple of days for an informal try-out at the docks?

[C2759]

Thank you for the various comments. The facts remain a mystery. My problem here is that all the people I can think of whom I could ask are no longer with us. For my part I am confident that I was taken to see something unusual on the line going towards Ashton Swing Bridge one Saturday around mid-day sometime in the late 1950s. My father was an RCTS member, which would undoubtedly have been where he came by the information that whatever it was, was running and I would have been dragged along, aged around 6 to 8, to see whatever it was on the grounds that looking after me provided him with an excuse to go off leaving mother to cook the dinner. At the time I would have known for sure what it was I was looking at. My problem is that my memory now is not that good and I'm not so sure. I was hoping someone else might be aware of it. My best guess for what it's worth is that a 15xx was sent to Bristol for trials on the Dock lines but was found not sufficiently successful to warrant permanent transfer.

[Robin Summerhill]

Ever since this thread started I have had misgivings about a 1500 working Bristol Docks.

One of the problems with the Hawksworth tanks in the 1500 and 9400 classes, and as a result being not very popular and the cause of their earlly demise, was their axle loading. They were given the GWR Red route availability classification meaning thata they were not allowed on many of the lines that other pannier tanks could work.

I have been looking around my archhives trying to find out what the engine restrictions were in the docks, but with no success so far. My gut feeling however is that they would probably not have been allowed down there, or at least so restrricted that the wisdom of using them there at all would have been questioned.

Off topic, but when my interest in railways was kindked in 1962 one of the Chrchward dock tanks, 1365, was in apparent permanent store at St Phillips Marsh. I have found no record of it ever being formally transferred there from its home depot of Swindon, but it would have potentially been a far stronger cintender for dock work than the 1500s. Whether it was actually tried there, whether it was found unsuitablle or suffered a serious failure and just sat at SPM until somebody decided what to do with it, is something I doubt we'll find out after all these years.

[22A]

in 1962 one of the Chrchward dock tanks, 1365, was in apparent permanent store at St Phillips Marsh. I have found no record of it ever being formally transferred there from its home depot of Swindon,

Hi Robin; wikip knows it went to SPM, but not why. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_1361_Class
One was tried briefly on the Weymouth Harbour Tramway in 1949, and another went to St Philips Marsh, Bristol in 1962.

[Robin Summerhill]

I don't dispute 1365 was there; I saw it there enough times!

All I was saying was that I found no formal notice of its transfer from Swindon. And I looked very hard when I was compiling my Steam Allocations database back in 2007.

[Robin Summerhill]

Having looked for the engine restrictions for a week and failing to find them, and posting so on here this morning, I found them this evening! They were hiding in the passenger WTTs when I thought they would be in the freight WTTs.

They make interesting reading. Bristol TM to Wapping Wharf via Redcliff was a Red route so they would have been allowed. Everything else (Wapping Wharf to Ashton Junction, Ashton Junction to Canons Marsh) was ÔÇ£UncolouredÔÇØ so they were not have been permitted. On that basis there was probably little point in using one down there.

If anyone wants to check this out, http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk ... tables/553 and look at the Bristol District Passenger timetable for the Bristol District June to September 1959. They are on page B186 of download B for this table