The Bristol Railway Archive

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:04 pm 
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Location: Exeter
Hi,
I've just joined the forum and hello to everyone.

Back on Thursday 1st June 1967 my family and I travelled overnight on 1N37 21.00 Newton Abbot to Newcastle Motorail service throughout and from enquiries made since here in Exeter, I understand that Class 45 Peak D47 worked the train from Newton Abbot.

Is anyone able to confirm if D47 worked this Motorail service north from Bristol TM and would the train have travelled via the Mangotsfield Line?

I fully appreciate that this could be a long shot, but I would be very grateful for any help offered.

Regards

Mark


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:36 pm
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Location: Bristol, UK
Hello Mark and welcome to our very long running (and friendliest ever) forum!

I can't comment specifically about D47 on your given train / date, but I can say both your statements back in 1967 would have been very possible and very likely. On that date, nearly all of the Northern services took the Mangotsfield route and very many, if not nearly all, were "Peak" hauled.

- Jules


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:48 am 
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watcher

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Hi Jules,

Many thanks for your reply and comment regarding services for the north running via Mangotsfield in the late 1960's.

Would I be correct in saying the cord between Westerleigh West Junction and Yate South Junction was not authorized for normal use by any passenger trains, due to signalling and/or condition of track, until closure of the Mangotsfield route on 29th December 1969?

If anybody does have access to notes taken at Bristol on the evening of 1st June 1967 and can either PM me or reply via the forum, this would be very much appreciated.

Regards

Mark


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:48 am 
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27016 wrote:
Hi Jules,
Would I be correct in saying the cord between Westerleigh West Junction and Yate South Junction was not authorised for normal use by any passenger trains, due to signalling and/or condition of track, until closure of the Mangotsfield route on 29th December 1969?


No you wouldn't :)

The connection was put there in 1902 when the South Wales Direct line was built. The GWR always had running powers over the Midland line as far as Standish Junction and, when the new line to Wales was built their trains started to go that way to get to Bristol rather than go via Mangotsfield.

This arrangement lingered on (as such things often did :) ) into BR days. My 1959 WTT (which is 6000 miles away at the moment and I won’t be home to look at it until Monday) shows the “Devonian” going that way on a regular basis. There may have been other trains that did it too but I can’t remember off-hand.

On Summer Saturdays it was also commonplace for some holiday extras to go that way so that they could use the Bristol avoiding line to avoid the congestion at TM. Engines and crews were changes at Dr Days in these cases.

It was only whilst typing that lot out that I started wondering why the GWR felt the need to divert their trains between Yate and Bristol after 1902. Did they have to pay the Midland for the privilege of running their trains down a foreign line, and did they perhaps save a few bob by cutting the mileage back? An interesting question that I’d never thought of before.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:24 pm 
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watcher

Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:02 pm
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Location: Exeter
Hi Robin,
Thanks for your reply and interesting to read about GWR/BR Western Region services.

My main interest here is BR era services to/from north of England and Scotland which ran via Mangotsfield.

Regards

Mark


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:04 pm 
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I’m back in the UK now so I can start digging! :)

Whilst I appreciate that the main focus of this thread is he motor rail services via Mangotsfield, that diversion into the passenger trains that used the Westerleigh to Yate chord intrigued me. As I said earlier, the “Devonian” was shown in the 1959 WTT as going that way, but there is of course the facility to look at some WTTs online, helpfully put there by Michael Clemens http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?tok=34

The Bristol to Charfield WTT for 1960/61 is here: http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=557 (download 03 contains the relevant table).

Interestingly (to me at least) this shows that in that timetable only a couple of parcels trains in the down direction used the link on weekdays. On Sundays, however, quite a few trains went that way, and all of them were on Severn Tunnel diversions, as it was commonplace in those days to close the tunnel on Sundays for maintenance.

Clearly the GWR tradition still stood firm by sending GWR trains that way 12 years after nationalisation!

Another thing that the WTT shows is that almost all of them sopped at Stapleton Road, showing the relative importance of that station back then, which it has now lost. As an aside, I see that there has been no attempt to reinstate the other two platforms there with the quadrupling, so it is not getting it’s old status back any time soon…


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:57 pm 
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Stapleton Road was de-staffed in 1966 I believe, only to be re-staffed a couple of years later (1970/71) as it had to be used as a major station once again when the Bristol MAS project disrupted Temple Meads too much for trains to get in.

Before the Bristol & South Wales Direct line was opened between Swindon and Stoke Gifford in about 1905, Stapleton Road was the only calling point in Bristol for nearly all London to South Wales trains. There was still sufficient traffic in the 1930s for the whole Filton Junction - BTM - Parson Street to be quadrupled, the reduced in the 1980s and re-quadrupled in 2018. Interestingly, from early days, Rhubarb Curve was quadruple track with the Temple Meads route from Dr Day Junction being a bit of an offshoot. Remember the Midland trains were still using their own Mangotsfield line all this time ....

Competition Time: Who can give the name of the long gone pub on the platform at Stapleton Road Station and what year did it close? (Clue: I can remember drinking in there - but not necessarily legally!)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:56 pm 
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jules wrote:
Stapleton Road was de-staffed in 1966 I believe, only to be re-staffed a couple of years later (1970/71) as it had to be used as a major station once again when the Bristol MAS project disrupted Temple Meads too much for trains to get in.

Before the Bristol & South Wales Direct line was opened between Swindon and Stoke Gifford in about 1905, Stapleton Road was the only calling point in Bristol for nearly all London to South Wales trains. There was still sufficient traffic in the 1930s for the whole Filton Junction - BTM - Parson Street to be quadrupled, the reduced in the 1980s and re-quadrupled in 2018. Interestingly, from early days, Rhubarb Curve was quadruple track with the Temple Meads route from Dr Day Junction being a bit of an offshoot. Remember the Midland trains were still using their own Mangotsfield line all this time ....

Competition Time: Who can give the name of the long gone pub on the platform at Stapleton Road Station and what year did it close? (Clue: I can remember drinking in there - but not necessarily legally!)


I don't even remember a pub on the station so I can't join in with your competition :)

I don't remember using the station much either, except on Sunday 17th March 1963 when I went down to TM from there to see 60022 Mallard on the excursion that ran that day. Logically I must have used it a few times when going to and from South Wales on train spotting expeditions, as the no.4 bus from Staple Hill stopped at the bottom of the approach, but that would have been pre-July 1964 when we moved to Stockwood.

The station was also the only calling point in Bristol for the Cardiff to Portsmouth trains in steam and early diesel days, because that avoided the need for reversal at TM. That change probably dates from c. 1966 or 67, which would tie in with your estimated date of de-staffing.

Apologies to 27016 for swanning off-topic again, but this is what happens frequently around here, especially when bo-one appears to know the answer to the original question :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:05 pm 
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Quote:
I don't even remember a pub on the station so I can't join in with your competition :)


Well, it wasn't exactly on the station itself, but it was very hard against the platform exit from the Up Relief (no. 1 platform I think). You couldn't walk out of the station exit to go down the steps to Stapleton Road without walking right past the entrance to the bar (or into the bar in my case).

When I was about 18, I used to date a lovely young Jamaican girl who lived there with her dad, who ran the pub. One day I turned up for a date and she was gone. Her father's only explanation to me was "She'm goan Heat Row!" and that was the end of that :D


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:27 pm 
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watcher

Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:02 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Exeter
Robin Summerhill wrote:
jules wrote:
Stapleton Road was de-staffed in 1966 I believe, only to be re-staffed a couple of years later (1970/71) as it had to be used as a major station once again when the Bristol MAS project disrupted Temple Meads too much for trains to get in.

Before the Bristol & South Wales Direct line was opened between Swindon and Stoke Gifford in about 1905, Stapleton Road was the only calling point in Bristol for nearly all London to South Wales trains. There was still sufficient traffic in the 1930s for the whole Filton Junction - BTM - Parson Street to be quadrupled, the reduced in the 1980s and re-quadrupled in 2018. Interestingly, from early days, Rhubarb Curve was quadruple track with the Temple Meads route from Dr Day Junction being a bit of an offshoot. Remember the Midland trains were still using their own Mangotsfield line all this time ....

Competition Time: Who can give the name of the long gone pub on the platform at Stapleton Road Station and what year did it close? (Clue: I can remember drinking in there - but not necessarily legally!)


I don't even remember a pub on the station so I can't join in with your competition :)

I don't remember using the station much either, except on Sunday 17th March 1963 when I went down to TM from there to see 60022 Mallard on the excursion that ran that day. Logically I must have used it a few times when going to and from South Wales on train spotting expeditions, as the no.4 bus from Staple Hill stopped at the bottom of the approach, but that would have been pre-July 1964 when we moved to Stockwood.

The station was also the only calling point in Bristol for the Cardiff to Portsmouth trains in steam and early diesel days, because that avoided the need for reversal at TM. That change probably dates from c. 1966 or 67, which would tie in with your estimated date of de-staffing.

Apologies to 27016 for swanning off-topic again, but this is what happens frequently around here, especially when bo-one appears to know the answer to the original question :mrgreen:

No problem Robin.
Regards
Mark


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:32 pm 
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watcher

Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:02 pm
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Location: Exeter
Does anyone have a copy of the BR Western Region Section B2 Working Timetable for the 1967-68 timetable, which includes the Midland Route between Bristol TM and Gloucester?
Regards
Mark


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